186: How to create a lead magnet that grows your email list

If you want to grow your online business, building an email list is one of the most valuable things you can do but how do you actually get people to join it?

In this episode of Online Business Uncovered, I’m joined by creative copywriter Hayley Hickmott-Maurice, founder of Head and Heart Messaging (as part of my special Online Business Growth Summit Speaker Series).

Hayley believes great messaging needs both strategy and soul. It needs to support your wider business goals, but it also needs to sound like you, connect with real people and give them a reason to trust your business.

We talk about why so many businesses get their messaging wrong by focusing on themselves rather than the person they’re trying to reach, and how shifting the focus back to your audience can completely change the way your marketing lands.

We also dive into lead magnets and email list building.

Hayley explains why one of the biggest mistakes you can make is trying to solve too big a problem with your lead magnet. Instead, a strong lead magnet should focus on one specific problem your ideal customer is already experiencing and give them a useful, achievable solution.

We explore how to identify that problem, how to use your lead magnet to attract the right people and why moving your audience from social media onto your email list gives you an opportunity to build deeper relationships over time.

Because growing an email list isn't simply about collecting email addresses.

It's about creating an audience of people who have actively chosen to hear more from you, nurturing that relationship and ultimately creating a natural pathway towards your paid products, programmes and services.

We also discuss the growing role of AI in content creation and why Hayley believes the human elements of your messaging (your personality, experiences, values and understanding of your customers) matter more than ever.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to online business uncovered. This is episode 186 and in today's episode we're going to be talking about how to create a really effective lead magnet that people actually want, grow your email list and turn your audience into people that you can nurture and ultimately sell to. So let's jump right in and let's get started. Welcome to Online Business Uncovered, the show that lifts the lid on what it really takes to turn your brilliance into digital products, passive income, and time freedom. I am your host Karen, an online business strategist, course creation expert, and your go-to for building a business that works for you and not the other way around. If you are an ambitious entrepreneur feeling overwhelmed or burnt out, or maybe you're just ready for a smarter or sustainable way to grow, then you're in the right place. Because each week I'll be bringing you inspiring conversations, practical strategies, and step-by-step guidance to help you create scalable, repeatable digital products that sell even while you're labour. So if you're ready to stop trading your time for money, reclaim your time, and finally build a business that gives you the freedom that you deserve, hit subscribe and tune in every Thursday. Let's uncover what's truly possible for you starting now. Hello and welcome to Online Business Uncovered. I'm your host Karen and I really do appreciate you hitting the play button to listen to today's episode. Now, if building an email list has been on your to-do list for a while, then today's episode is definitely going to be worth a listen because today we are diving into how to start growing an email list. And I think this becomes even more important when you're building an online business because we don't want to be relying on social media in order to grow our audience. We want people to bring people into our own world where we can continue the conversation, where we can build trust and we can nurture a relationship with them over time. So today I am joined by creative copywriter Hailey Hickmott Maurice, who is the founder of Head and Heart Messaging as part of my special online business Growth Summit speaker series. Now, Haley helps business owners find exactly the right words to say to communicate what they do in a way that not only feels true to them but actually connects. So let's dive into today's episode and let's get started. Today I am joined by another incredible speaker who will be speaking at this year's online business growth summit. Now, throughout this special series, I'm chatting with our speakers to help give you a sneak peek into the knowledge that they're going to be sharing, and more importantly, to help you discover practical ways to build a business that gives you more income, more freedom, and less reliance on selling your time. So let's dive into today's episode. And today I am joined by the lovely Hailey Hickmott Maurice, who is a creative copywriter. Hayley, thank you for joining me. Um, do you want to just start by introducing yourself and um letting our audience know what you do and how you help your clients?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah, of course. Thank you, Karen. Um, I'm so pleased to be here today. I have been a big fan. I'm gonna get the fangirl moment out of the way now. So I've been a big fan of your podcast for probably about a year now. So uh this is this is a lovely moment for me actually to be to be a part of it. So thank you so much. Um, yeah, so I'm Hayley, I am a creative copywriter, and my business is called Head and Heart Messaging. Um, I support business owners, founders, uh directors, and leaders with their messaging. So getting the right words that feel true to them and that actually have an impact on their clients, and that might be across websites, or it might be across email marketing, it might be across blogs, landing pages, um, LinkedIn, even. So anywhere that your company uh organization is going to show up, you want to have the right words and the right message um to come across. So that's what I do.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Ah, well, thank you. I really appreciate your kind words about my podcast. It it's so interesting to me because obviously I just jump behind the mic and just talk about whatever is coming up that week, really. Um, but but it's really lovely when I meet people that listen to it. Because I see the um I see the I see the the data, the download figures, but we're not really given any other information. So I know it's been listened to, but it's always lovely to know that actually it's real people.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah, and it was actually one that I discovered organically as well. So it was one when I was searching um on Spotify that came up as recommended. So um, yeah, it was the great podcast. And thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

No worries, I'm really pleased that you're here. And I love what you talk about because um what we say is is so important, isn't it? How we want to position ourselves in our business and and you know, making sure that we're controlling that, I think is really important, but but what we say and how we say it is so important, and that's the kind of work that you do, isn't it? Whether it whether it is on LinkedIn or on a website or um because I I feel like copywriting is this undervalued skill in a time of AI. You know, because I think people are jumping to AI, aren't they, to in order to kind of get the content that they want, but but the work that you do, it's it's it's human to human, it's that connection piece that that I think we need now more than ever, that is becoming so prevalent in in our day-to-day life, especially as business owners, being able to support people with their messaging and getting their messaging in front of the right people. And um I just think it's such an important skill. And I tend to come from things from a visual place because being a designer, that that's that's how I um sort of like to tell my story and and and whatnot, but the words are so important. Um have you found have you found that you must sit there and and be on LinkedIn and read people's posts and be like, oh my goodness, oh my goodness, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yeah, well, there's a couple of things there. So um my approach is writing with strategy and soul. So I bring that balance to the messaging. Um, you know, you can't have one without the other. You're gonna need the strategy, the thinking that goes behind it, that links to your bigger picture and your business goals and aspirations, and what's actually going to work with the people you're talking to. Um, but then you need to inject some of your passion and your personality, and that's the soul part, and that's the bit that's really gonna connect with real people, real humans, and that's the bit that often unfortunately um AI can't quite get right at the moment, um, as well as the person-to-person research. So, of course, it can be trawling the internet, it can be pulling up research and statistics that may or may not be correct, by the way, just to double check on that one. Um, and it can it can do that and it can pull from that resource, but what it can't do is it can't go and speak to real people and find out actually what is going on behind the scenes, um, how does your team operate in it its unique way because every business is unique and is completely different, um, and what drives um your passion, what's your why? It really can't drill down into all of that, and those are the really powerful things that form great messaging, um, and unless that kind of underpins all of the writing that you put out there, it may not land with the people that you want it to work with. So, um, yeah, that's what I I do pride myself on on being a people person, and I really enjoy going out and spending time with teams. So, one of the things I like to do is actually come into your um your place of work, your office, or wherever you base yourself. Um, and I have been known to do things like shadow practitioners. For example, I went out to see um how some physios were working with their clients in the community, and it's things like that where I actually pick up the um the nuances, those kind of golden nuggets and the phrases that they are they are using without realizing that actually are really, really great phrases to to put in the copy. So, all of that is um a big part of my passion and probably comes from my background as well in um in teaching and education um and working with with communities and families.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah, yeah. I think there's uh some things that you just can't shortcut. And I love how you say about strategy and soul. I think that's really beautiful actually, because because I think in our messaging, like you say, you need to have both. Um and and when you kind of create a piece of content that really lands with somebody, like they can see themselves in what you're saying, you know, that's the gold, and that and that emotion can't always be captured by an AI at all. I think that's often the things that's it's missing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Yeah, absolutely. It's real people, and often the um because I work a lot with health and wellness um organizations and charities as well, who every day they are out there in the real world helping real people, um, with all the complexities of of our life, and you know, everyone's got lots of different things going on in their life, and not all of that can be captured by a machine, and you know, it shouldn't be captured by a machine, you know. So um that's the kind of the angle that I bring to it. Um, and the people that I work with really do value that that insight. Um, I do get some people who come to me and say, you know, oh, maybe AI could do this a bit quicker. Probably could. It probably could do it a bit a bit quicker, but would it have the same impact and would it have the same long-term impact? Um, because I am all about that relationships over time and nurturing over time and long-term impact over um kind of the short, the quick wins that you may get with people clicking on things and and and that kind of thing, but actually, what's the long-term impact and are people sticking around and supporting your brand um over the years, and and that can come through really, really good messaging. So that's um, yeah, that's my approach.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah, no, I love it. I I think that um as being sort of founders and and and you know, having our own business, micro business owners, especially, people are buying into them, they may have their like a business, but essentially when somebody decides to work with a micro business owner, a founder, you know, a solopreneur, they're choosing to work with that person, and I think often that'll be because of the trust that they have with them, but that trust has to be built over time, usually. I mean, it might you know, you might shortcut it and you meet somebody at networking, and instantly you know, your energies connect, and then you you gain to decline, but but nine times out of ten, I think, and and they talk about it now that you know those touch points in your business, what is it, 15 to 18 touch points now, in order to really build the trust so that you stand out in people's minds, so you become that go-to person, and I think part of that being able to kind of be that expert in your space is about sharing your story and sharing your message in a way that does connect. And I also feel as um sort of entrepreneurs as well, that if we are asking people to trust in us, we have to give them something to trust in. It can't be because everything that we're generating is through a a AI tool. There has to be us in that because that's what we are asking people to invest in. Um and I and I know the temptation is always a fast track and to do things quickly, but it's not always for the better. I know I've I've I've had I've had things sort of that that I've had to deal with, um, you know, where where it's like they've just sent me kind of AI stuff and completely missed the whole point of that connection piece.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah, I've just read a a good book actually, which is called Truth is Better Marketing. And it's all about how sometimes finding the truth in um a problem or an issue does take a lot of time and it can actually be quite challenging as well for founders and business owners to hear when you think, oh, actually, I've been doing it a little bit wrong, or I haven't quite hit the mark with my audience here because I haven't really drilled down into what it is they actually need and want. Um, and that can be a longer process, but it is so much more impactful, and it is so it has an impact not just on obviously kind of sales and and you know the the things that we want out of our business, but it has an impact on reputation, it has a long-term impact as well on people returning, um, you know, returning customers and clients and uh word of mouth spreading about your business and brand. So um it is about the kind of the effort you're going to put in up front for the the bigger and better reward long term. Um and I think that um a lot of business owners get that, and when you do finally kind of get to that point, um that's when you might consider um you know outsourcing, that's when you might consider bringing in people that can um bring their expertise and and their perspective, and that's what it's all about, isn't it? Using using our network and looking to see who can we bring in who knows their stuff and actually can um put the time and effort into working with me to make this really really work rather than just kind of um work quickly within within the space of a week and then all actually it hasn't really worked, it hasn't quite hit the mark. So um, yeah, it's uh it's uh it's a long-term strategy, I think, isn't it? That kind of that way of thinking.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

I think so. I think so. I think it's putting the intention behind building something, so not just having a business that generates money, but but having a brand that connects with an audience so that you can actually create the impact that you want to create. And I think that is very different than just just just chasing the money. So I agree with you. I think I think investing in um your messaging and the way you talk and the way you present yourself, I feel like it needs to be really authentic and it but it also needs to be curated in a way that is intentional, um and and the there's there's obviously a place for the the sort of rough and ready version of it, but also naming that message messaging so that you're actually you know really connected. I know for me, I probably the past 18 months I've worked solidly on my messaging, and when I moved into the online course space, I when I look back now, my messaging was so broad, and what I was saying was so broad, and then I realized that actually people don't want online courses, it's not what they're looking for, they they want to solve problems, they want to um they they want to find things that that that kind of give them what they want, but they but but they have to be problem aware first, and and it's kind of going through a pro like it's all a process, you know. You have to kind of sometimes start bored in order to then go in and really focus down, but but that's when somebody like with your expertise can really come into play is when you've really kind of understood what you're doing, who you're serving, how you're serving them, the the solutions that you're you're providing and those results, you know, being able to then deliver it in a way that lands with them that succinctly says what they need to hear, but in a way that kind of really supports your brand.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of the time it is about going through that kind of deep process of unpicking the audience and unpicking the the problems, like you said, thinking about solutions, which one is going to be best, and then at the end of it, it has to land on something very simple and one idea to really pull people in. If you think about something like a landing page, for example, um, you know, some people make the mistake of trying to cram too much into that landing page, and oh, and here's another offer that you might be interested in, or um something else, or directing people back to their website, and um, because it's obviously a space where you can put links in and things like that, but actually, after all of your planning and your research, it does need to come back to that one idea, that one solution that that you can offer really through that landing page, and and that often is the case, even when you're looking at website, for example, you know, each page has a purpose, and and that is really important to keep that streamlined as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um so what would you say is the biggest mistake that you come across a lot that people make when it comes to um you know what they're doing online?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah, I think probably similarly to what we just spoke about audience, that the biggest one that I see is people, um, and this often happens on websites actually, people putting their organization at the forefront of what they're saying. And that sounds a bit strange, but if you start off by saying, um, you know, we do this or we can offer this, and this is what the qualifications I've got, you're instantly creating a bit of a barrier between your organization and the person reading it. They have come to your website or wherever they've you know ended up for a reason and they want something out of it, you know, they want to know what's in it for them. Um, so that's what I often see. The kind the words your my organization or our organization kind of haunt me in a way because I see it so often. And um when I'm doing um website copy reviews, it's something that is yeah, is it often comes in in the review, um, but you know, it is I think it's a quick fix, you know. Think about how you can actually twist that around to say um why that person is here, um, and set the scene and and set the context to show that you understand a little bit about that what that person is struggling with in that moment, and try and really pinpoint maybe just one or two things, reasons that they might have shown up um on your page or engaged with your content. So starting off in your audience's world and setting the scene for them and showing that understanding rather than starting off in your world, that's always um one thing that that I suggest as a kind of a quick fix, I would say. Um obviously, you do have to do the audience research and you can you know deep dive into that, um, and that can be taken a lot further, but that's just yeah, a big one that I do see see quite a lot.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah, it's interesting because when I used to build websites for clients, um we we do like a kind of deep dive session at the beginning, and and it was so interesting to me that often they would it would be what they wanted, yeah. They'd be looking at it from their perspective. So um the the the way they they saw the website was for them. And it's like but but this is is for you for your audience, the people that are going to, you know, buy from you. So it's really interesting, isn't it? Like how people see things and and it's because obviously they want to say what they want to say and and deliver what they wanna, you know, they do. So so naturally that comes from them, but you're absolutely right. You know, people are there for a reason, and it's kind of making sure that every every page they're on is serving them, not the organization and and whatnot. So so yeah, I know from my own experience I've seen that play out a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

And it's the same with lead magnets as well. And I'll speak a bit more about this um in my uh presentation at the uh online business growth summit. But people often see lead magnets as something that you know is designed to work for them, but actually we it needs to be flipped on its head a little bit and in a similar way to that. Um, so yeah, I'll speak a bit more about that during my session and how you can actually create a lead magnet that focuses on just one solution and that actually works with the people you want to attract because I think that's the key thing, isn't it? You know, you can spend a long time making something, you can spend a long time writing your website and giving lots of information about you and your background. Um, but unfortunately, it might have been a waste of time if it doesn't quite have the impact on the right people.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Yeah, I it's a it's an interesting thing, isn't it? And I've said I've seen this again, like you've just said, I've seen it play out when people have created courses where they've made assumptions up front about what needs to go into a course and the journey they want to go on without really thinking about the end result. And I always sort of think it it's like reverse engineering when we work on this stuff, you know, looking at where do you want them to be at the end of it so that you can sort of move them towards that place rather than just drop them off somewhere where there's no real next step or no strategy around it. Um, but it but it lead magnets. I know that I've had many conversations with people where they're like, I've done this, it's not working, I'm not getting the leads, people are not signing up for it, and often it's because they they've kind of looked inwardly on what they want to create as opposed to what the market needs. So I know your session is going to be so valuable, especially with um, you know, people that are looking to build online products and and using lead magnets as part of their customer journey to get them where they want them to go. So I'm really excited about your your session. Um, do you have any tips um that that you can share like in terms of like lead magnets right now? I know I don't want I don't want to go too much into it because I know you're gonna be um delivering something um on this, but but have you got like a top tip when it comes to thinking about your lead magnet?

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, I think probably the the place that I would start is thinking about maybe what people what problem you see come up often with the clients that you've worked with, what do they moan about the most? So listening to what they keep saying is an issue, or they keep having um you know small problems with, and and lead magnets, you know, they're they're supposed to be designed for small solutions rather than, and this is where I went wrong at the beginning when I first created uh my very first lead magnet. I thought, oh, I'm gonna help someone to write their website. I'm gonna help someone to write their whole website if they download this resource, and actually, now I look back at that, that's going to be something that I um plan to create a course about at some point because it is a much bigger project than just um something that a lead magnet could you know can support you with. So it's it's narrowing it right down to one problem that could actually be quite a small problem, but it's a niggling problem for your um for your potential clients. Um, you know, having a quick Google if you've not got lots of clients to draw from, to draw that research from at the moment, having a quick Google, maybe speaking to your network, speaking to people who um you think might benefit from your support, um, and asking them what actually would genuinely be helpful, not just something that you want to put out there because you want to promote a certain service or a certain offer, what would be really helpful for the people that you're trying to attract? And and that's where um that's a good starting point. And there's other things that I will mention when um when I do my presentation as well, that that can also be useful. But I will also go on to talk about the next stage of it after the lead magnet as well, because it's all about subscribers and and how you can grow your list in your way as well without going down a route where you feel a bit salsy and icky. So I'm really I'm passionate about you shouldn't have to compromise your values at all to do good marketing. I think that um you can do fantastic marketing and keep your your values if you don't want to do any hard sales or pushy messages. That's absolutely fine. You don't have to. So um I will explore that as well a bit in the in the session, and hopefully, people will be empowered to get started um with the first step to creating their mailing list afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Yeah, no, I I think they they will. I mean, it's such a valuable asset, isn't it? The whole sort of email list. And um, you know, I was having a conversation with with Beth who's delivering the social media session, and we were talking about you know using um social media, leveraging it to to kind of bring people into your list. And what I love about your session, it's like how are we going to do that? So um we we want to use social media because it's a way of visibility and getting in front of people, but what do we do when they start following us? What how do we want to convert that audience? And and the next logical step is to take them on the next step of that journey, which is coming into your world so that they can consume more of what you have to offer, and of course, that's what you're gonna be you're going to be supporting with. Um, and it's one of those things that I don't know if you come across people, but but often I'll say to somebody um when they come into my membership or whatever, I'll be like, Do you have an email list? And then they'll be like, No, it's been on my list for ages, and I just haven't got round to it. And it's like, great, this is gonna be the time. This is the time ready for 2027. Get yourself sorted so that you can start building it out and um start building that valuable asset that's going to actually work for you and help you grow. So um, yeah, just gonna be a lot of traffic.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

And it it's you've got to remember that though the people on your list have chosen to be there because they're interested in you, your approach, your unique approach, and what you do and what you can do for them. So it's so valuable, I think, in my opinion, above and beyond social media. Like you said, social media is a great starting point, but you are sometimes putting a message out there that may sometimes disappear into the ether, you know, or or actually may kind of land with the slightly wrong people, or maybe people like it, but actually don't take any further action from there. So um the people in your mailing list, um, you know, it is a powerful resource, um, and I think that it is um something that can give you more freedom as well, because you know, you can um be really targeted on there so you can tell your story, make sure people are kind of you're nurturing your audience and building those relationships and targeting the um services and offers that you want to for those right people, yeah, and yeah, pair it with kind of you know your written resources that you want to sell, like your guides and your mini courses, um, and yeah, kind of plugging your um bigger services as well because actually you might have um small services like for example, website copy audit for me, uh a review is one of my smaller services that I often use to get people interested in what I do. Um, but the bigger services are going to be better received by people on my mailing list because they know me already, they trust me, they like what I do. Um, and that's where you can actually um you know sell those bigger services and make a bit more money that way.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Yeah, absolutely. They're the ones that put their hand up to say they're interested. Um early this year through I did uh an email campaign over my birthday, um, which was back in February. And um I have a it's just a small product, it's uh it's uh kind of entry-level product that I talk about. And um I did a five-day email campaign, and I was just each day I covered a different thing. It was all about uh building passive income, but I shared my story and I talked about what it's done for my business and how I've approached it and all of that, and every single day I had a call to action which was to go and buy this. It's my passive profit accelerator. Um, so so it's very much you know, you want to create passive income in your business, you don't know where to start, this is where you start, and it did very well. It did, it did it like every single day. I had sales coming in, and I and I but but what I got, which I thought was more valuable than the income that I generated, was I had responses from people on my list reflecting back to me what I was saying in their own words and identifying what I was saying through through themselves and and also sharing their experiences of being in business and being burnt out and not having anything you know outside of selling their time and all of this. And I thought that that that's what it's about, it's creating a list of um people that you want to work with or you want to support and serve, but giving them that value, but also opening the door to other things that you're gonna have that is gonna help them on their way as well, because and and and really that that's why you know I wanted to have list building in the summit because it's just such a powerful thing to to have um like in your business. And when we talk about generating income, where do you start? You start with your email list and focus on growing that to get the results that you ultimately want. So yeah, your session's gonna be brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Yeah, yeah, I'm really I'm really excited, and um obviously because I used to be a teacher, it is gonna be packed with examples, it's gonna be packed with little moments of reflection. I'm gonna keep people on their toes, so make sure everyone's got a notepad notepad and and pen because um I know what it's like when you're sometimes in these presentations and and webinars and things like that, and it can drift off a little bit. So um I've kept it as lively as I can, drawing on all my teaching experience as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

So I the the common thing, so obviously I've spoken to I mean, I've got 20 speakers at the summit, and and obviously I've been doing these interviews with everyone, and and they've been brilliant because um we we've talked about such important stuff, and there's been some real sort of moments of gold that have come through. But the common theme that seems to come through is everyone is all about keeping it simple but but offering a practical solution, and and I just love that because it's there's so much noise out there, there's so much overwhelm, and people are so busy, and when you want to start something but you have no idea where to start, and you just barded with all the noise, it's really difficult sometimes to just take that for and and I think through your session they're going to be able to do that in a supported way. Um so so I think so much value is gonna come and obviously be you know I tend to thank you in advance because I know it's gonna be brilliant. So before we finish, I just want to find um some some questions at you. Um I'd just like to find out a little bit more about the person behind the business, and um, I'd also like to summon it as well. Um are you a coffee or tea drinker?

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Oh, this is a bit of a tricky one for me because I have to have my morning coffee. Um, but I if I did have to pick one of them, it would be tea. Because for me, tea is so comforting and there's a lot of nostalgia around it. My family are big tea drinkers, but very much of the kind of you come through the door, you're offered a cup of tea without question, you know, you're not gonna say no to that cup of tea. Um, so uh yeah, it's um it's something that I yeah enjoy and it's comforting. So I'm gonna go with good old builder's tea. It has to be a strong tea for me. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

It's a very British thing, isn't it? Yeah you know, to offer up a cup of tea. What about you, Karen? What what was what's your uh oh coffee? I'm I'm such a big coffee drinker and I probably drink too much. In fact, I don't think I've got blood in my veins, I think it's actually coffee. But yeah, and I'm because I'm a bit of a digital nomad, I go out and I work in cafes, I just pop up in places. Um, I obviously the way I kind of repay them for obviously you utilising their facilities is I buy a lot of coffee or I drink a lot of coffee.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Yeah, and you get to the end of the day and you think, oh, I've had six coffees today. And I don't want to you know what?

SPEAKER_01 36:23

I think I'm really immune actually because I can have coffee late at night and it doesn't even touch the sides, and I think, yeah, I think I I drunk so much it just doesn't really so um what's the one book that you think every entrepreneur should read?

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Okay, so I did have a big think about this, and I decided I'd have to suggest something to do with writing, because obviously that's my area of expertise. So the book is called Writing for Busy Readers. It's not a book for specialists, it's not a book for copywriters, it's a book for, in my opinion, all business owners and founders, because we all have to write about our business, whether we like it or not. Um, we all have to put things out there in the digital world now, whether we like it or not, if we want our business to grow. Um, and this book it has so many sources to start with. It has um about hundred sources of research that they've done pulled from lots of different places, and it's a fantastic guide to help people write in a really clear way for their audience. It even has um things like uh bullet point guides, really kind of visual. I'm a very visual person, um, and I appreciate books that aren't just you know walls of text, and you know, again, as a copywriter, we know that we need to make things readable for people. Um, so it's got guides in there of how you can quick fixes, how you can make what you're writing more uh readable. So doing things like formatting, like using bullet points, using um making things bold, obviously sparingly, not you know, overworking it, um, how you can put things like value first and foremost, really kind of helpful, practical, like we were talking about earlier, um, practical tips, every chapter's broken down in a really clear way, and it leaves you with something at the end that you can put into practice in your business writing. So I think that beyond being a copywriting specialist, that is really useful for every business owner. Um, and it's not a long book as well. I know what what it's like, I don't like those. Um and actually a lot of business books tend to be shorter, don't they? And there's probably a reason for that because we don't we don't have the patience or the or the time to actually um to to kind of delve into a big big tome. Um, but that's the one that I'd recommend. I can't remember off the top of my head who it's by. There's two or two uh co-authors, um, but I will I'll send it to you, I'll send the authors to you afterwards and maybe put it in the in the notes for the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yeah, definitely. It sounds a really good book, actually, because writing is a skill and it's a skill that needs to be learnt, and we don't all come into our business having learned that skill.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Um so having somewhere the sorry, I was just gonna say it's yeah, no, it's actually when we go to school um and we learn writing, it's often creative writing, which is fantastic, which is lovely, or it's essay writing on the other side of it, but um we don't often learn the kind of writing that needs to be read quickly and that we need to write as business. So that's the bit that is often, you know, we we leave school, and if we do start our own business, we might feel that's something there's there's a gap there, and and and this book um does, in my opinion, it does give really great tips um to upskill you in a way that you know you're not going to become an expert copywriter at the end of it, but you are going to learn those um techniques that will help you to, for example, get started on writing your website or write your content in a way that's going to be easier to read um for your audience.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Yeah, no, so it sounds great. It sounds like such a useful book to have. Um, what's the one tool or app that you just couldn't run your business without?

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Okay, that's got to be Google Workspace for me. I like everything. I like it when things talk to each other, I like it when things are synchronized, and I like it when I can have a meeting that then just flies across to my calendar. It just makes my life a lot easier. Um, and my cal yes, my calendar is colour coordinated because obviously it's got to be. Um, that kind of organization is really important to me. Um, having those blocks of time where I can work on do client work, where I know I've got meetings where I I do try and put breaks in. Um, as tricky as it is to kind of to get those breaks in your day when things do overrun a little bit, but um, my calendar and all the the workspace apps that go with it um just just help me to make life easier for myself. It really does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Yeah, and that's what that's what you need, isn't it? You need that organization. I only laugh because uh being visual, my mine are very colourful as well. And then I uh my husband makes me laugh because he just goes for blue, everything he does is one colour because he's the most uncreative person ever.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

He's sort of more into the data. People asking you, oh, what why have you got so many colours? What does that colour mean? And you've got a reason for everything, and like, oh, that's when I'm doing my own content, and that's when I'm doing yeah, yeah, but I know what it means, that's fine. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

It's my you've nailed your system, yeah. What's the one best piece of business advice that you've been given?

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Um, so I don't think this, I don't know whether it classes as advice, but I am so pleased that when I first started my business and I was networking and I was speaking to people, I'm really pleased that people were very honest with me and said it will be really tough, and there are going to be times when you do feel like giving up and it gets really, really challenging. Um, you are gonna have months where you don't have any work, you know, and that that happens, it's a roller coaster. Um, and when I was hearing that at the time, I kind of thought, oh, that you know, is this scaremongering? You know, is it but looking back on it now, I'm pleased that I did hear that because when I was going through those tough times, I knew that those people had also been through those tough times and come out the other side of it. Um, so it wasn't scaremongering, it was actually um, you know, confidence boosting, like you can do this, you've just it's it's inevitable that you are you're setting up your own business, it's inevitable that you are gonna have very tough moments, especially um a lot of creative businesses at the moment are having quite tough moments because of um lots of lots of reasons and lots of things going on um in the world. But um I knew that in the midst of that, I was going to come out of it and I was gonna see the other side, and I did, and and that's something that I would um say to other people as well that you've just got to get your head down and you've got to shift your priorities a little bit, work on your business in those moments where it is feeling a little bit quiet, and you know, you've not got a lot of client work. Working on your business is a really good way to channel your energy into something positive, um, and then when you come.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

out the other side you feel so much better for it because you've you've done the work on your business and you're that much um further on than you were before so sorry it's a bit of a negative one I think no I love it I love it because it's because it's it's a reality it's the reality you know I think people think they start a business don't they and they think it's it's overnight success they go they're gonna get what they want overnight and um they're not gonna have to put a lot of work in but it's the hardest path you want it easy go and get a job you know this is the this is the hardest path there's the the there's the the it's a journey and I think also what people don't say as well is the self-development that needs to happen um whilst you're on the journey because that has a direct effect on how you build your business and and you know the speed at which you build your business and I think sometimes people gloss over it and and and also I think people sometimes just see what they see now and you know often the ones that have the success have gone through that roller coaster and what they've done is they've they've dug in and they've stayed focused and they've taken the action and they've come at the other end. And then the ones that haven't are no more and and that is a real reality of running a business and um so I think you you know hearing that I think you were just given a window into the reality of it um which you know is probably the best thing because at least you knew you know when times got tough you can like say you know channel your energy into the things that work for you and and you're here now doing what you do and and it's all for the best but you know it it does take it it takes mental strength resilience agility and a lot of you know focus and determination so um yeah I just I feel like there needs to be more conversations around that rather than painting a picture of it's so easy when it when it when it really isn't so and I was talking to a client earlier actually and he was talking about mentorship and and apprentices and I kind of thought to myself afterwards wouldn't that be so lovely in the business world as well if you had those mentors and obviously we do have business coaches and and you know things like that and that that's been really helpful for me personally I've had a a coach and that's been you know transformational with with some of the things that I've been working into my business um but having mentors you know is that something that actually would would be useful for people as well and um not that I'm saying I'm gonna I'm gonna start that kind of here's my ideas going here but it's true yeah yeah it's true it's true I think it's so important isn't it to be in spaces where you're around people that are just you know further along so that you can see what's possible yeah you know otherwise it becomes a really lonely journey um and you and you can end up sort of giving up your dream because because of one thing or another so I agree with you I think I think mentorship is so important being able to have have that help and support um it's a wild ride it is it is a fun one a very fun one as well exciting yeah yeah definitely it I I'm 10 years this year and I'm just like where the hell is that time gone and um it's been so many highs lows and everything in between but um it makes life interesting and that's the thing so uh so in one sentence what does building an online business mean to you so for me the biggest thing is flexibility to do what I love to do but also in a way that works for my family and that works with my values as well so this is something I've chosen this is something I've chosen not just for me but it's for my family and the people that I love as well um it's not just for financial reasons it's for my um confidence my self-worth my passion to fuel all of that as well um and something that makes me really happy so that's that's um yeah that's I think probably more than one sentence but I'll let you off it's such a good answer we'll let go oh thank you so much Hayley for joining me today now if you enjoyed this conversation you are going to love the online business growth summit because this is just a small taste of what there is to come now alongside today's guest you'll be hearing from over 18 incredible experts and they are covering everything from digital product creation to marketing sales ai visibility audience growth list building so much more and it's all designed to help you build income beyond selling your time now you can register for free using the link below in the show notes or in the comments or go to my website www.sellyourbrillianceonline.com and register for free there. Hailey thank you so much it's been an absolute pleasure and I really do look forward to your session um at the online business growth summit. Thank you thank you so much for tuning into today's episode I really hope it's given you something to think about and perhaps inspired you to look at your business a little bit differently. Now if you've enjoyed this episode then I'd be grateful if you could share with a friend or a fellow entrepreneur. It really helps more people discover the podcast and you never know who might need to hear this message today. And if you're ready to start building a business that gives you more freedom then I would love to invite you to join me at the online business growth summit. Now this summit is taking place on the 6th to the 8th of October online it's completely free to attend and it's going to bring together over 18 expert speakers who will be sharing practical strategies to help you create a business that you love a business that truly supports your lifestyle. You can register your free place today by visiting wwwsellyourbillingsonline.com I will be back next week with another episode but until then have a wonderful week thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Online Business Uncovered if today's conversation has sparked an idea or gave you a dose of clarity then please make sure to check out the show notes for all the links and resources mentioned new episodes land every Thursday so hit follow or subscribe to stay in the loop and if you're loving the show a quick rating or review goes a long way in helping more brilliant entrepreneurs like you find this show. Until next time keep showing up keep sharing your brilliance and remember freedom in business is possible and it starts with taking the next right step