185: Why you don’t need a complicated launch to make sales!

Launching your online course, programme or digital product doesn’t need to be complicated but as business owners, we have a habit of making it that way!

We convince ourselves we need complicated funnels, loads of tech, perfectly written emails, huge audiences and elaborate launch strategies before we can possibly put our offer out into the world.

But what if you stripped it all back?

In this episode of Online Business Uncovered, I’m joined by Matt Hall (as part of my special Online Business Growth Summit Speaker Series) to talk about why we need to stop overcomplicating our launches and focus on what actually helps us get our offers in front of the right people.

We explore some of the common mistakes business owners make when launching, why it’s so easy to get caught up in everything we think we should be doing and how simplifying the process can make it much easier to actually get started and make sales.

Creating your offer is only one part of building scalable income… at some point, you have to put it out there and ask people to buy it!

If you have an online course, programme or digital product sitting on your laptop because you’re overwhelmed by the thought of launching it or you’re creating something new and wondering how on earth you’re going to sell it then this episode is for you.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello and welcome to Online Business Uncovered. This is episode 185, and in today's episode, we're going to be talking about why we have a tendency to overcomplicate launching our offers and how keeping things simple can actually help us get our ideas out into the world and start making sales. So let's jump right in and let's get started. Welcome to Online Business Uncovered, the show that lifts the lid on what it really takes to turn your brilliance into digital products, passive income, and time freedom. I am your host, Karen, an online business strategist, course creation expert, and your go-to for building a business that works for you and not the other way around. If you are an ambitious entrepreneur feeling overwhelmed, burnt out, or maybe you're just ready for a smarter, more sustainable way to grow, then you're in the right place. Because each week I'll be bringing you inspiring conversations, practical strategies, and step-by-step guidance to help you create sustainable, repeatable digital products that sell even while you're playing. So if you're ready to start trading your time for money, reclaim your time, and finally build a business that gives you the freedom that you deserve, hit subscribe and tune in every Thursday. Let's uncover what's truly possible for you starting now. Hello and welcome to another episode of Online Business Uncovered. I'm your host, Karen, and I really do appreciate you hitting that play button to listen to another episode. Now, if you've created an online course, program, or digital product, you probably know that creating the offer is only one part of the equation. Because then you've actually got to go and launch it and then sell it to make money. And this is often where we can start making things far more complicated than it actually needs to be. We convince ourselves that we need complicated funnels or loads of tech, or maybe we need to have written emails that are perfectly written, huge audiences, and maybe even an elaborate launch strategy before we can even possibly put anything we've created out into the world. So in today's episode, I am joined by Matt Hall, who is a launch strategist as part of my online business growth summit speaker series to talk about how we can simplify the launch process and focus on what actually matters when it comes to getting our offer out there and in front of the right people. So if you have an offer sitting on your laptop waiting for the perfect launch strategy, or you're creating something new, but maybe you're already feeling overwhelmed by everything that you need to do to sell it, then this episode is going to be for you. So let's dive into this conversation because it's definitely one not to be missed. I'm joined by another incredible speaker who will be speaking at this year's online business growth summit. Now, throughout this special series, I'm chatting with the speakers to give you a sneak peek into the knowledge that they're going to be sharing and more importantly to help you discover practical ways to build a business that gives you more income, more freedom, and less reliance on selling your time. So let's dive into today's um chat. And today I am joined by the lovely Matt Hall, who is an online launch strategist. Matt, thank you so much for joining me today. Do you want to start just by sharing with you, my audience, who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Thanks so much. It's great to be here, and obviously, I'm excited to speak at the summit as well. I in December this year, I'll have been running businesses for 16 years. So my first business I started at 19 years of age. I knew nothing about entrepreneurship, nothing about building a business. I was just wildly, you know, uh ambitious and naive, I think is the word, really. Um, and I just started at the time I was a performer, I'd been an actor, things like that, and I started in entertainment agency and management, managing bands and things. And what I always say is I would say the first seven to eight years were just years of me getting it all wrong, making all the mistakes, working really, really hard, but not working very smart, um, hiring the wrong people, having to let them go, you know, making lots of money but not having any profit at the end. It was all really painful years in many ways. Um, and then about seven years ago, I started to then have a second business in the online space. So I've still got that other business now. Thankfully, that's in a much better position. I do very little for that business now. I have an amazing, incredible team and way better than I am. Um, and it still obviously pays me and it's still a great business. Um, but then I started my online stuff where I launched a podcast about seven years ago called the Success School Podcast, and through that, you know, started learning about um a lot of self-development, a lot of mindset, a lot of business development, and eventually that led me to having my own membership and then getting qualified as a coach, as a mentor, as a business strategist, you know, doing a lot of the qualifications a lot of coaches have done around like NLP timeline therapy, hypnotherapy, life coaching. I just sucked it all up like a sponge. Um, and here we are, and today uh things are very different. I'm very, very grateful for the life I have, for the business I have, for the community I have. We have a membership with over 400 members at the time of recording. Um, we've just done our biggest launch of a group programme, which was close to 200,000 pounds in revenue in seven days, which was epic. Um, and the main thing I love, I'm obsessed with and help people with is online launching. So when we talk about online launching, I'm not necessarily talking about like starting a business per se, although it can include that. It's more so helping people launch something like a group program or a course or a membership, and it's looking at ways in which we can leverage what we do but sell it one-to-many en masse, versus just as you know, as as I know you speak about, this concept of just always trading time for that money working with people one-to-one. So that's the key thing that I help people with.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

I love your journey because what you deem as say failures really is probably what got you to where you are today. Because you've obviously had some really Yeah, you've obviously had some really big lessons that that you've obviously taken on board and been able to work with and and and get you where you are. Because the thing is when you start a business, you know, you read all the books, you watch all the YouTube channels, you know, you listen to the podcasts, but the one way that you can learn is by doing, and that's clearly what you've done is you've been like what what you probably feel was another lifetime ago, what you were in the doing of learning, and now because of that, you've been able to bring that into what you're doing today.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Always. I mean, I have learned everything I teach and help people with. Uh, I've learned it the hard way, I've learned it through getting it wrong. Through, and I think there's no better way to not repeat a mistake. You know, somebody can tell you, don't do that, it won't work, or it's too hard. When you've lived it, when you've had that experience, you know it doesn't work, or you know it's not right for you, or whatever. So I often joke about that with my clients, and I'm like, I'll say things like the reason I'm such a good coach is because I I literally have done everything not you know not to do, and I can help you avoid all the dangers. But I also think to some degree, I I encourage people if they really think it's right for them, try it because there is no better teacher than the experience of giving it a go. And sometimes it doesn't matter how many times people tell you that's probably not gonna work, you have to experience it to really go, oh yeah, I think you were actually right. But it but it's ongoing. Like I've always said put action on a pedestal, I've always said learn from doing, learn from experience. We you know, a joke I say is are you doing self-development or shelf development? Shelf development being that you've just got a bookshelf with more books, more courses, more resources, instead of actually developing yourself through experience, and even just this last two years, I mean, I've made life-changing money, more money than I've ever made in all these 16 years. But I've had major cash flow issues, I've overcommitted to things, I've not scheduled ahead properly, and I'm still learning. You know, there's that whole saying about new level, new devil, and it's like I'm still learning from doing and through getting stuff wrong. And I think culturally, a lot of us in the UK we do still see it as you know, trying and failing is bad. And I think one thing I've really learnt doing a lot of business retreats in America is it's like failure really is just feedback, and it is how you get better, it's how you learn, and I think it's a really good, you know, for anybody listening, a really good takeaway from this conversation here is to think like how often are you pushing yourself to test those limits and learn those lessons from doing because I think it's way better to quote unquote fail and learn than never truly try stuff because you're stuck in that cycle of overthinking, overwhelm, procrastination, and not moving at all. So, yeah, I've basically been, as they say, a bully in a China shop, throwing myself into everything and still learning today.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, but I but I love that because that's entrepreneurship, isn't it? I don't think people um truly have things figured out. I think you're right. I think whatever level you're at, there's always new things, there's always new challenges that you've got to master, new responsibilities, new ways of doing things. And I think part of the the journey is having those lessons. And it's funny because I think a lot of people focus on the destination. I want to get here, and actually it's that process of learning and developing, and that journey is where the gold's at because that's where you truly get to learn what you're about in those moments where it's sink or swim, you know, it's like how are you going to how are you going to handle that? You know, are you just going to curl up in a ball and pretend not you know everything's fine, or are you actually going to dig in, learn from it, and come out the other side? And I think that's when it tests your mettle, and when you start to, like you say, build something that starts to give back to you.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah, I think if you are not the sort of person that enjoys finding solutions to major problems and figuring stuff out, then entrepreneurship probably isn't going to be the right path for you. Because I think you really win in entrepreneurship when you just see it as a game that you get to play and you find enjoyment in that game. To your point there of saying like it's not all about the destination. We've heard these cliche things said many, many times. But actually, when you live it, if you can like internally genuinely be like, Do you know what? I actually I'm enjoying this process of growing, and growth isn't always easy, it's often hard and painful. But if you can enjoy it and see it through the lens of it's a game I get to play and it makes me stronger and wiser and more experienced, and I'm therefore more useful to others and can help others. I think that is the attitude to some degree you almost have to have. And if it's not, if you just want the quiet life, the easy life, probably don't start a business. And I think that's where sometimes the online space and a lot of the online messaging is very misleading because it tries to say to people, you can live a life of freedom and ease and all these things, and it's that shiny pennies syndrome, it looks and sounds amazing, but quite often the deck the the journey to get there and the person you become to get there is anything but freedom and ease and flow and all these buzzwords that we've seen for many years in the online space. And and the reality is it's bloody hard work, it's painful, and if you develop the skill sets and get really good in time, it can start to turn, and then you can start to have more choice and freedom, but not for most people, and that's the reality I think we need to discuss is I think people need to be more honest, you know, in these conversations about the reality of what it takes.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I think it's the hardest path to take. I think when when but when you start a business, you have all of these illusions of what it's going to be like, you know, you get to do the job that you love doing and you can focus in on that, and you're not being told what to do, and you can be autonomous and you can have flexibility and freedom to work with the clients that you want to work with and all of that and develop something, but it's hard, it's hardgoing right from the get-go of having to figure things out all of the time. And I think you're absolutely right in the online space, there's a lot of um crap that floats around, which can be really misleading. And I think, and I always sort of say this to people, you know, the the limitations is what we put in the way. So so we have this um unlimited potential that is available to us, but it but but it it requires hard work, it requires focus, you have to really dig in. And when it does get tough and things don't go the right way, which you know we we've all experienced at one time or another, you have to be have that that mindset of you know wanting to turn it around and wanting to to to to kind of figure it out so that you can actually get to the place where you want to get to. And I think it takes a certain person to do that. I don't like you say, I think anybody could probably have a business, really, but I don't think it's for everybody, like online business as well. You know, um, speak to a lot of service providers that they're sitting on gold, you know, their knowledge, their experience that can be packaged up, but it isn't for everybody because it but it because it does require a certain mindset and a and a certain I think a certain resilience that is needed as well. You know, it's a tough place to be.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Yeah, and and at the same time to counter that, it's like, and it's never been easier, so it's about perspective of like if you are willing to put in some hard yards and do what it takes and problem solve and and find the joy in that journey, yeah, but also at the same time, wow, like perspective, folks. We are so lucky to have the access to things like I often think about imagine talking to somebody in 1951 or whatever, let's pick a random year, you know, about the fact we have the ability to start a business with zero pounds, you can reach people anywhere in the world with the internet, yeah. You know, I and and on and on and on, you know. Now we talk about things like what AI can do for us and so on. It's like if you have the right attitude and the work ethic, it's actually never been easier to make money, and I think sometimes we get a little bit soft with it, and we get a bit like, oh, it's so hard. Or another thing that I say, which is potentially controversial, but I think the upside to say when you look at maybe 2019 and 2020 in particular, what that era gave us, which is so great, is it made starting a business so much more accessible, yeah you know, you didn't need loads of money to invest to start posting on social media and things like that, and especially 2020, a lot of people were at home, it was a lot easier. So I think the upside is a lot of people started businesses, had success with business that previously hadn't been able to. I think the downside in some cases is I think we're breeding or have bred a lot of entitled business owners that they've not known what it was like to have really hard years in business. They've not known that for from the dawn of time, like businesses always, if you were gonna start a business, you knew you needed to invest money into marketing, you know, maybe premises, staff, like maybe have to get you know, um hire team or get investment and angel investors, like for years, for decades, business owners know that to make great money you need to invest, and what we've got now is a certain thing of like, well, I've showed up, I've posted four times on Instagram this week, and I didn't go viral, and it's not it's like, what are you talking about? Like you've got this free thing, but that's one lever. Like, what are you doing? Are you getting investment? Are you looking at how to get a budget together? Are you diversifying your marketing and not just relying on one platform? So it's like there is so much available to us if we've got the right attitude and we're seeing the possibility and the potential that is literally all around us.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah, I have to agree. I I think it's interesting. I have a lot of conversations with people where they, if they have to invest a little bit of money because they need a tool or they need to do something, it it can be a real struggle to see how they're gonna get a return on it. And it's so small in the greater scheme of things because you're right, we have all these platforms available to us now, all these new avenues that that are accessible, and we can literally market our businesses for free, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

And that's great, and that that is absolutely brilliant. And I I always want to caveat by going, I know different people are in different positions, different situations, but I think as a mindset, as an attitude, it's that thing of like gratitude first, recognize how lucky we all are to be alive right now at this moment in time, and then proactively have that attitude of I can find a way, I need to be resourceful, I need to speak to the right people. Like if I need to get investment, I can find a way. I think if you've got that attitude and you're following that kind of outlook, there's so much opportunity for you right now.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Yeah, no, absolutely. I smile because a lot of the the sort of characteristics and the traits that I think people need in order to do this, I I, you know, I yeah, I just it it like you say, there's there is that entitlement, but but I think for the right person that wants to create something and have impact as well, you know, create impacts in other people's lives, it it is limitless. And I think that's that's why I get excited about the online space, because we have what we have available now. Um, I want to talk about launching. So, so, and you may not know this, but launching is actually one of the topics that I love talking about because obviously I help people with online courses and memberships and creating those scalable offers, but of course, afterwards they often need to go into a launch process. So I have a lot of conversations with people, and some of the stuff that I've done myself, I've had to go through it. And obviously, we were having this conversation before we jumped on when I where I was sort of just sharing um my own challenges with launching. But I I find it fascinating. I have read, you know, um, and I don't know if you've read it, but you know, the launch plan by the guy. Um, do you know who I'm talking about? It's Jeff Hooker. Yeah, yeah. I've read that book so many times. Um, every every time I get something different from it, but I just find the entire process so fascinating because there's never one way to launch. There's so many ways um in order to do something. But I know this is where you are the absolute expert. So, do you want to just sort of share like what it is that you do and how you help your audience to um to get their offers out into the world?

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing that I would say is there's a phrase that I've said for many years, which is simplicity scales, complexity fails. And there's so much truth in that. I think for so many of us with entrepreneurial brains, we're constantly adding in new offers, new things to launch, new price points, you know, different ways of working with us. And that doesn't work for a lot of us, especially in those earlier stages. So I think when launching works, it's because you create space and time to do it well. And I think that is the key thing that I wasn't doing back in the day that I've really mastered now, is you know, knowing that when you've got a new uh whether it's a course or a program or some kind of offer to sell, it's not doing it while you're also doing another million and one things in your business. So it's about being strategic and thinking next 18 months, 24 months maybe, what are we launching and when? And what's our revenue goals and our targets for each launch? And when you view the year like that, straight away it flips the mindset from just month to month, just selling, selling, selling. And it's like, no, because if we're selling that at the same time, that's going to dilute the strength of this launch. So I think like that's the first the first tip that I give to people when we're approaching. Launches is let's just pause. Um, what are we trying to achieve here? What are the goals, and how can we strategically launch the right things at the right time of the year to in the easiest way possible hit those goals? And that's the overall outlook that I would say with launching. I actually think launching as a formula is dead simple. You're absolutely right, there's different nuances to how we do it, but the basic principles are, you know, because you hear people saying launching is dead and it doesn't work anymore, which I just think's nonsense. And hopefully anybody that's followed my journey can see live evidence that I'm proving. You know, at the time of this recording now, we're doing a launch tonight. Like I'm I I literally keep doing launches and proving from our results it's absolutely not dead. But I think there's core principles that work and will always work, and then there's slight little, you know, if you want to call it sprinklings on the top that just need evolving and changing, and I think hopefully that straight away simplifies it for people because everybody thinks there's this secret formula or this new thing, and just remember folks, most of the time when you're being told this doesn't work and this is the new thing, a big percent of that is just their marketing to get you to buy the thing from them. But actually, with launching, and you know what Jeff Walker uh I guess kind of paved the way for in launching, he's he's like the OG really of online launches in many ways. Um, a lot of what's in that book and the basic principles, all these years later, they're still pretty much bang on. I think the thing that people need to understand is just rinsing and repeating the same offer isn't necessarily gonna always win. I think what we need to do is go, what is the market rewarding right now? What's changed, what's different, what do people need right now, want right now, what are people buying right now? And I think it's that it's keeping, I think where I see people doing great launches and then thinking launching is dead, is because they haven't evolved the offer. And it's and especially, I think this is really good advice more than ever, right now, in a world of AI as we're moving towards you know 2027, a few months away. I think things are going to evolve and change faster than they've ever done. So, for example, with our biggest launch that we did this year, we've brought a lot of AI support into that and a lot of teaching how to use AI in your launches to say it's kind of ahead of the curve, make things faster, easier. Um, I think we were a little bit ahead of the curve in teaching that stuff and talking about that stuff. And I also think very soon that will be the new standard that everybody is having AI as part of their group programs and courses and so on. So I think there's there's there's really some, and that's cool, that's fine. But the point is it's knowing that this is what people are needing now. Because if you think, if you come and do our program and there's all these amazing AI tools that help make it easier than ever to get a result, and then someone else is selling something without all that, and they're saying you've got to do it all yourself, it's gonna be much harder to sell that course. And that's where I think people struggle with launching, is they're just rinsing and repeating and they're not keeping up with the slight adjustments of the times that people need now. And I think that's why we've done you know really well with ours.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah, it's interesting with AI because there's no getting away from it. I think people are gonna use it regardless.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, to stay, but it's not going.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

It is, it is, it's only gonna sort of grow. It's only gonna grow, it's only gonna get more advanced, and then but then the challenge becomes how can we use it effectively? How can we use it in a way that gives us the outcome we're looking for? And I talk about this with my members. It's not um, it's not don't use it, use it, but use it in a way that supports what you're trying to do, um, rather than just jumping into chat, give me a launch plan, give me a course, whatever. And then without really thinking about it, then you just use that without looking at what you're actually being given. I think I think there's a way to use AI in a way that gives you the results, but we've got to use that as a tool, not a replacement for the way we think about things. We still need to put us in the work that we're doing, and then like say, use that.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah, the phrase that I always say is it needs to enhance what we do, not replace us. And that's the key difference, not replace our brilliance, our thinking, you know, our experience, it's got to enhance it. So whenever I am thinking about launching a new program or just you know, updating a program or anything like that, I literally ask the question how can AI help my clients' customers get results in a way that is faster, easier, and better. How can I overall improve their customer experience and results and retention? And how can I do it in a way that's not replacing what I'm already doing, just enhancing it? So, one obvious simple example of that is we've created a chatbot called MapBot, and it's an AI, you know, chat version of me, uh chatbot version of me, and it's got voice, it literally has my voice and things like that. And in our program, we teach people how to create their own as well, and you know that's been game-changing for people. But here's the way that that doesn't replace me, it enhances me is when I've got 216 people on a program, and in between the live sessions, which I still teach the modules live every week, people are gonna have questions. Even when we do QA, some people are gonna be like, It might be a stupid question, so I don't want to ask in front of everybody. People are gonna have moments that come to them at 3am on a Saturday night and think, Oh, is this a good idea? And the chat bot is basically it's got all my frameworks, my methodology, it's got my whole book, all the chapters of my book, all the trainings that I've done, and it's also got my personality. The thing I'm most proud of with that chatbot is it pushes back and and it challenges people in the way that I would, and it's got some amazing feedback, and people find it really, you know, quite unique and funny. Um, but it is, it's not just there to say, Great idea, keep going. It will say things like, Hang on a minute, you told me this last week, you're now telling me that. These do not complement each other, so we need to rethink this. What is it you're actually trying to do? And people are like, Oh, that's a really good point. And it's genuinely helped them. Now, the point is this if you've got 215, 16 people on a program, I cannot be speaking to them all at 3 a.m. on a Saturday night, and I'm not going to be speaking to them on weekends, and you know, they're not going to be able to go back and forth, back and forth with me. So that's not replacing me, it's giving them more of what I'm giving them that I just couldn't do myself. And I think that's just one example, but I think to kind of give your listeners in terms of the overall approach, it's really thinking where are those gaps that that it's hard for humans alone to fill, where AI can jump in and just give more customer service, more support, more help, more efficiently than it is with just humans alone.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yeah, that's good, great. I've seen it it's interesting with chatbots because they're becoming more and more um sort of popular. I've I've been working with a client who has been developing her own chatbot, um, and she's in a really sort of niche area. But but you're absolutely right. This is what AI um, you know, gives us the ability to do this. Um, and and I think also, you know, it's the gaps that the people don't focus in on. Yes. Um so so you can't.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

And I want to put a caveat there, it's about doing it well. There's a lot of rubbish out there, there's a lot of people using it really, really badly. Um, I've partnered up and I love shouting her out. Rebecca Whitney, she's based over in Florida. She is my partner in crime, she's my AI consultant expert. She's helped me develop a lot of the stuff we've developed. The reason, well, I one of the reasons I love working with her is because she's an absolutely beautiful human being, first and foremost. Yes, she's talented, yes, she's done incredible things. She's been part of a team that scaled a business from 10 million to 100 million in a couple of years. Like she's done incredible stuff, but at the heart of her, she's a good person that cares about people, cares about humanity, and she will only do things that are ethical and genuinely enhancing what we're doing and not replacing it. So I think that's a really important caveat I want to share. The obviously, it's like with any technology or anything in life, you get good people, bad people. It's not necessarily the tool that's the problem, it's the you know, it's what is the motive behind it and how are people using it?

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Yeah, no, absolutely. Um that brings me nicely on to the mistakes people make because when it comes to launching, I'm sure you've seen miss a lot of mistakes being you know being made by your audience. Um, can you share what some of those are?

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Um I mean I'll I'll maybe go broader than just launching because it ties into launching, but it's broader than that. I think people in business are too busy trying new stuff and not sticking to figuring out how to make one thing work better, and it usually comes from a lack of trust in themselves, you know, self-doubt, imposter syndrome. So, one of the biggest reasons I see people just generally not having the business success they want, and you know, incorporated into that is having the launches that they want, is they are constantly having this is my idea. I'm going all in a few weeks later, they're not getting the results, right? I'm changing it, I'm doing another idea. Oh, this isn't working, um or going to a different mentor or doing another course, like they're constantly flip-flopping around instead of going like think a bit more long term, think a bit more strategic. Look at one thing I would say is most strategies work, but the question is, does it work for you? So this is where having self-awareness and knowing yourself is vital because if not, you're just gonna hang on to the words of every next podcast you listen to, every next coach, every next mentor, sign up to everything and be super overwhelmed with a million different approaches. So coming back to the idea of like simplicity scales, it's like one core strategy, one key mentor, and a considerable amount of time of being really consistent at it is usually the thing that's gonna lead you somewhere and make some progress. The biggest mistake I I see is not enough people do that. They are one minute I'm a holistic coach, and next minute you know, they they're doing nutrition and next and they just flip-flop and try because they're not actually fully clear and going all in on one thing. Um, so I think it's about trusting in it, it's getting known for one thing. And when we talk about like niching down and all that kind of stuff, I know there's pushback of people like, but there's lots of stuff I want to do, can do. Slightly controversial take. I often say is we need to think like a business owner, not a uh I always say it's like the difference between like CEO thinking and self-employed thinking, and in the way that I'm describing it, it's like the self-employed thinking is very short-term, emotion-led. What do I want to do? What do I like doing? What do I enjoy? CEO thinking is about being a serious business uh founder, and it's about being strategic, logical, long-term thinking, not being led by emotion, and going like part of it is going, okay, if we want a serious business, we need to think what is going to drive revenue into this business as soon as possible so that we can reinvest the revenue to grow the business. And so when I say it's like a controversial take, I think there's an element to some degree of following the money. Because if you get that right, if if you're really good at something, even if you don't absolutely love it, initially do it for a period of time, do it for a season, do it well, get known for it. When you just double down on one thing that you're good at and you become outstanding at it, and that's where you get known, you get recommended, you get the podcast, the PR, the stages for that one thing, you then build a brand which then, if you want to expand and do other stuff or evolve or change direction, you can do, but you've got to pick one thing and get good at it. And if we just think of even like huge examples, you might think of Amazon and think, but they're a massive business and they do everything and anything. They started out selling books. Amazon was a bookstore that got really good at that, really well known at that, and then evolved. If you look at Dwayne Johnson, the rock, I think he's he got like shares in some whiskey company and he's done acting, he's arguably, I think, done a bit of singing and cartoons and all sorts. But what was he known for? He was known for the WWE wrestling, the rock. And so anybody that's ever done anything substantial, the vast majority of them did one thing, got really good at it, really well known for it, made lots of money, and then later on they can evolve and do other stuff. It's that whole idea of you can do everything you want in life, just not at the same time. So I think the biggest mistake is people try and do everything at the same time, and the counter to that is just get really good at one thing and evolve if you want to over time.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

I think I think that's uh really great advice, actually, because um, I mean, even as you're talking about that, I see that a lot. Um, so I do a lot of online networking and I often sort of meet people on a regular basis, and and the amount of times uh somebody will be introducing themselves as one thing, and then a couple of months later that they they've changed, they've gone somewhere else, you know, and they're doing something else. And and you mentioned earlier where people are like saying that launching is dead. I've had that with online courses. The amount of people there that I've been in conversation with and they've turned around and said, um, nobody wants an online course, it's dead, nobody's buying. And it's not true. It's it's often born out of their opinion based on them creating something, trying it once, not getting the results, and therefore they've developed this belief around this thing no longer works, this thing is no longer needed, when actually what they haven't done is learnt the skill to be able to number one, create an effective course that delivers the result and the transformation they're looking at delivering, but also the skill of selling. Because I think also, and I and you probably come across it with launching as well, is to launch effectively, you're learning a new skill set. To sell effectively, you have to learn the skill of selling. Um, but yet it's doubling down and understanding that's what you've got to do. And I think when people try it and it doesn't yield them the results they're looking for, that's it. They've moved on, they're doing something else because they believe that something else will sell better. Um, and it's so so it's interesting. You know, I can tell you're very passionate about it, but I I I know I I'm there because I I see it and I come across it so so many times, and I've had so many conversations when when people haven't got the results. And it is simply down to that whole thing of you know, getting really clear what you're wanting to create, like like what do you want to be known for? Like, what is your reputation that you want to have? What do you what is the solution you're providing, and then making sure that you are that person by what you're delivering and sticking with it.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Um there because you mentioned like about selling, and for me, selling is so simple, and I think we overcomplicate it. You know, selling doesn't work if you're speaking to the wrong people or you're not selling something that is compelling enough. So, for example, you know, the cliche thing, don't sell meat to vegans, they're never gonna want to buy it. Selling's gonna feel weird, icky, you know, uncomfortable because they're never gonna want to buy meat, right? And I know that's a silly example, but it hopefully makes a point that as long as you're speaking to the right people, and that comes back to the basics of knowing your ideal client, avatar, and then doing what I call is like creating a no-brainer offer, which is really understanding what are their fears, their objections, what are their desires, like understanding everything within reason that those per people are likely to think and feel, and then making sure you build into your offer something that speaks to each point. And if you can get that right, and you make sure it's compelling and you know, time sensitive, and all the kind of things that that make people more compelled to buy, selling doesn't have to be weird or icky, you know. Launches can absolutely work, people are absolutely gonna buy your course, but you've got to just nail that simple thing. Is this compelling enough? Does it speak to something, you know, does it solve a problem that they want and need solving that is of high priority? Um and are you speaking to the right people when you sell it? It's that simple.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Yeah, but I think you're right. I think that it we do overcomplicate and we make it so much harder than what it needs to be. And the thing is, everybody's selling. The moment I think you're in business, you're selling, you know, even if you're putting it in.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

In life, like if you don't sell yourself, like if you don't bet on yourself, you ain't gonna ever get into a relationship with anybody, you're not gonna have friends, like like we're always putting ourselves forward for opportunity, whether you're in business or not. So I think there's a lot of misconceptions about selling, because rightly so, you know, it's been pointed out that there's sleazy tactics and unethical ways of selling. Um, but when you break it right back to what it actually is, selling is just about speaking confidently about something you believe in. And if you don't believe in it, if you don't believe it's genuinely a good exchange of value, if you don't believe there's genuinely a good opportunity for that other person, um, you shouldn't be selling in the first place. And that's the only reason selling would be a problem, is if it's not genuinely a good opportunity or a fair exchange.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think I think the moment you put that label on it, selling, I think, I think that's where people sometimes get uncomfortable. Um so so it's it's interesting. I had one of my really close business friends, she had a program, and um it was amazing. It was uh it was a high-ticket offer, and um she delivered webinars to sell this program, and she she organically got one person buying the program, but then in the webinar um when where she was selling it, the moment it came to the sales pages, she bypassed because she felt so uncomfortable with the prospect of selling the program, even though she'd already had the confirmation that it was of value because she'd already made one sale. And I thought that was really interesting. It was it it's like it's almost like you can all the while you're giving value, it's absolutely fine because you give, give, give. But the moment you turn around and you ask for something, it can make people feel really uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Um that might have just been her money mindset. And if it was, as you say, high ticket, if she's not been potentially used to uh paying for high ticket herself, or if she's not had many people buying it, it could have just been as simple as she just didn't feel good about the price. And when I'm working with people on launching, I'll be looking at those, and I'll always say, like, the number one thing that's gonna sell this is you feeling good about selling it. And if there's something so sometimes people be like, I know you're gonna shout at me, Matt, uh, because you're telling me I should be charging more, but I think it's this. And I say, well, then do it for that. Because if that feels good and it's your first launch and you know it's worth 10 times more what you're charging, for your first launch, I'd rather you feel really good, make it a no-brainer, get loads of people buying, and then we can work from there. I do have a problem sometimes with some of the information given in the high-ticket space, where it's just it's not that the information or the strategy is necessarily wrong, it's just not necessarily right for that person at that time because energy doesn't lie, conviction doesn't lie. Like if that person is saying a price point because their mentors told them to say it's worth that, and they don't believe it, we as the potential buyers can sniff that out. We can tell they're not comfortable saying that price point, which is a whole different tangent, which we'll do on a different day.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I also think with pricing, it's it is subjective. Um, because that's something I get asked a lot by a lot of my sort of my members in that is what should I price this at? And I always say to them that if you're launching something for the first time, then then put together a founding member um, you know, offer where you can then increase the price thereafter. But if you're going through it first time, have something where you bring people in and found it, you know, and you make them a founding member. So that way they get the the privilege of being the first in whatever the thing is, but then you have room afterwards to be able to kind of maneuver that price once you have that evidence that what you're offering is actually worth the value. Because sometimes I wonder if it's that. I think sometimes people create something, but they know it's a value, but they need the evidence reflected back to them. And it's not until they get that they're like, oh yeah, actually, I should really double this, shouldn't I? It's like, well, you know, you're giving a lot away. But I sometimes think that is it's a lack of evidence at the beginning before they actually kind of put it out into the market. Um, so you're obviously going to be given a brilliant session um at the summit. So do you want to just sort of let people in on what your session's going to be about?

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Yeah, dead simple. It's about simplifying launching, it's about showing you how I'm not saying it's easy per se, because nothing when you're starting out is easy at the beginning. Like you're learning new skills. You know, you're trying stuff for the first time, you're maybe gonna feel out of your comfort zone. But how absolutely simple launching can be, and how with time following that formula, how it can start to be easy, and that is what I'll be breaking down. Um, I'm gonna try and debunk myths, I'm gonna try and simplify it so you're not getting information for information's sake. And I'm just gonna give you step by step some actions that you can take if you want to be able to sell more en masse, if you want to be able to do things that are more what I would consider semi-passive. I'm not saying it's passive, there's still work and ongoing input. But if you want to develop something that, especially if you're an online business owner that you know predominantly works with people one-to-one, and it's like they only earn the money if they show up for that one-to-one call. Um, this is a different way of doing things whereby if you launch these offers, you know, successfully, it will change not just your business but your whole life.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Oh, I'm I'm so excited about it because I know the whole thing with launching can be really overwhelming to people. And I think they like the idea of creating a one-to-many offer, but then how do you get it out there? How do you get those people through the door? How do you get the mass um sort of members and all of that? And I think and I think what you're gonna share is gonna literally be a game changer. Um, you know, it's funny, isn't it? I always think it's so interesting that when we do something, sometimes for the first time or whatever, we always make it more complicated. It's always this idea of it has to be more complicated than what it needs to be. And that's why I love sessions like yours because you're gonna strip away the overwhelm and just really get to the the nub of what exactly it takes to be successful with launching. So um, yeah, it's gonna be a great session. So before we finish, though, I've got a quick fire round of questions, if you don't mind. Let's do it. Um I've asked I've asked all my uh speakers, and it's really interesting some of the answers that um I've had, but obviously the most important one is um do you drink coffee or tea?

SPEAKER_01 46:12

Neither. I don't really drink either. Oh, do you not? I used to drink coffee um as part of my morning routine, and then I just started like feeling a bit ugh, it just made me feel a bit sick, and I just stopped. Um and if I ever was to drink tea, I just very rarely do it, but I might sometimes have like a herbally mint tea or something like that if I'm trying to be extra healthy or whatever. But yeah, I don't really drink either.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Oh, do you have like a go-to drink that you would sort of drink instead?

SPEAKER_01 46:43

I so I had a bad habit of replacing coffee with those energy drinks, zero calorie things, and then a good friend of mine, Natalie McKenzie, shout out, cognitive strategist, um, told me how bad for your brain they are. Um, but I I now I don't know if anyone's familiar with like Chris Williamson and James Smith's drink, the Newtonic drinks. That's my go-to little energy pick-me-up because I ran it by Nat, and she was like, That is way better for you than those stores. So that's like my guilty pleasure that I have most weeks.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yeah, no, that's fair enough. I um I was watching a video actually on the energy drinks and and what it does to the kidneys, and I think seeing that video, I'm like, I don't really drink them anyway, but after that, I was like, hell no, because it really does kind of affect, and you don't realise. So uh, so yeah. What's the one business book that you think every entrepreneur should read?

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Ooh, if I think about what's had the biggest impact on me, um Daniel Priestley, I would shout out I mean, any of his books. Um I mean 20 uh what is it, 21 assets, 24 assets? That's one that I think's less shouted out about think about building assets in your business long term, not just you know, and business you can sell, not just make money now. But any of his books, whether it's key person of influence, oversubscribed, I highly recommend Daniel Priestley's books. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Brilliant. And what's the one tool or ad that you just couldn't run your business without?

SPEAKER_01 48:14

I guess the obvious one would be my CRM system. We run everything through that. But um if I was to try and take a different approach, I would say uh get to know if you don't already know lovable. Um lovable will change your life.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Oh, intriguing. What's the one best piece of business advice that you've ever received?

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Um I think it would be some like I think all advice is right at certain seasons and not necessarily right at other seasons. So I think one of the most impactful ones in recent years was build the business you know you want to build. Because I'd already built a business. I already had people that loved it for what it was, but it wasn't where I wanted to take it. And there was that fear of letting people down and wanting so what you end up doing is as you evolve it, you're kind of going in between what you want it to be and what it is. And I just it was just one piece of advice which was just start today with what you want it to be. And if those people that are currently there, loving it for what it is, want to go to the new version, they'll come with you. If not, they'll leave, and that's totally fine. But you're robbing yourself of finding the right clients for the the next level of business you want to build because you they're not gonna want it because you're still half making it this and half that, and that was just such good advice. Um, and in particular, it was my membership at the time. My membership had about 40 paying members um paying just short of 20 quid a month, and it was more of a mindset self-development with a bit of business and a bit of making money, and then we we even used to have guest experts on nutrition and fitness because it's called Success School, which is the same name as my podcast, and it's the idea was it was like all the different subjects of success that make us a successful person, and it was the concept originally was it's the alternative to traditional education where we've been taught about maths and science or whatever it's like to be successful, we've got to work on our mindset, our relationships, our nutrition, fitness, health, money. But the point was that because it was trying to be so many different things, it never was like a hell yes for people. So I had these 40 members that just liked the community, that liked doing the positive mindset stuff, and sometimes mean learning about nutrition or fitness, whatever. And actually, I was like, I want to build a community for entrepreneurs that want to build business, I want to just hone in on business, but I was like, I'm scared these 40 people won't come with me, and not all of them did, but that one piece of advice meant in eight months I went from having a membership that I'd had at the time for five years that I could not grow to have more than say 40 members-ish, and then in eight months we had over 400 members, and it was like I just needed to hear that almost like get that permission to go go for it, Matt. And we did.

SPEAKER_02 51:15

Oh, that's amazing. Is it it's funny, isn't it, how you become obligated, you know, when you start out, you have all these ideas, and then somewhere along the line, there's an obligation to keep doing what you're doing, almost like you say, you know, that getting permission to be able to sort of change and shift.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

I think and I think sometimes knowing yourself again, it's about when you know yourself and what season of life you're in and what your business is that isn't what you want it to be. You can then be much bolder and go, this is the next season, let's go for it. And I think a lot of people don't have that confidence. And and I didn't always, it comes for a lot of us with with time and experience.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

Yeah, I also feel like as you go through the stages of business and you try new things, your identity is constantly shifting, but it's recognising that you're not the person that you were perhaps you know two years ago when you launched that thing that actually you've moved on, and then then then building, like you say, the the the business that sort of reflects where you are at that point. But that's what I was sort of saying about the obligation, because then you feel obligated only to keep things going because that's what you think your members want, and you know, but yeah, it it's I I think that's the most interesting thing about the entrepreneurial journey is you never stay um in one place for too long because you're always having to learn, always develop, and I think new ideas and new ways and all of that, and then new technology, and you know, there's just there's this constant evolution that's that's going on, and it's absolutely fascinating, you know, when you listen to people's stories and where where they started and where they end up, and often they never even realize that this like it was never on the cards, but somewhere along the line things have happened and they've just naturally evolved into where they are at their current time. Um, I just find it so fascinating when it when it comes to the journey of like say running a business. So, in one sentence, what does building an online business mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 53:26

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

I would say um I would say leaving people's lives in a better situation than when they came to your business, including our own. I think that's what an online business is about. It's about it's about making sure that anybody that works with you, as part of your team, anybody that buys from you, any customers, clients, but also yourself and your own family and people you love, they should all benefit because of the business. That's that's for me what a what a successful online business should be.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

Amazing. Matt, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been an absolute pleasure, and uh I don't I literally can talk to you all day, so uh you're absolutely fascinating. Um, if you've enjoyed this conversation, then you're going to love the online business growth summit because this is just a small taste of what there is to come. Now, alongside today's guest, you'll hear from over 18 incredible experts covering everything from digital products to marketing, automation, sales, visibility, audit growth, and honestly, so much more. And it's all designed to help you build income beyond selling your time. Now, you can register for free using the link in the show notes. Um, and I will see you in the next episode of Online Business Uncovered. Thank you, Matt. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

I'll see you at the summit.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. I really hope it's given you something to think about and perhaps inspired you to look at your business a little bit differently. Now, if you've enjoyed this episode, then I'd be grateful if you just go with a friend or a fellow entrepreneur. It really helps more people discover the podcast, and you never know who might need to hear this message today. And if you're ready to start building a business that gives you more freedom, then I would love to invite you to join me at the online business growth summit. Now, this summit is taking place on the 6th to the 8th of October online. It's completely free to attend and it's going to bring together over 18 expert speakers who will be sharing practical strategies to help you create a business that you love, a business that truly supports your lifestyle. You can register your free post today by visiting www.dowbulanceonline.com. I will be back next week with another episode, but until then, have a wonderful week. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Online Business Uncovered. If today's conversation has sparked an idea or gave you a dose of clarity, then please make sure to check out the show notes for all the links and resources mentioned. New episodes land every Thursday, so hit follow or subscribe to stay in the loop. And if you're loving the show, a quick rating or review goes a long way in helping more brilliant entrepreneurs like you find this show. Until next time, keep showing up, keep sharing your brilliance, and remember, freedom in business is possible, and it starts with taking the next right step.