184: How to sell more (without feeling icky!)

Does selling your offer make you feel uncomfortable?

Maybe you love creating your courses, programmes or digital products but when it comes to actually talking about them, starting sales conversations or asking someone to buy, you find yourself holding back.

In this episode of Online Business Uncovered, I’m joined by Sales Coach Lisa Yelland as part of my special Online Business Growth Summit Speaker Series to explore how to sell more without feeling pushy, awkward or “sales-y”.

Lisa believes one of the biggest problems facing small business owners isn’t necessarily their offer or their sales strategy... it’s sales avoidance.

We explore why so many entrepreneurs avoid selling, how fear of rejection and our own experiences of being sold to can influence the way we approach sales, and why selling doesn’t have to mean becoming a completely different version of yourself.

Lisa shares why she sees sales as a conversation rather than something that only happens at the end of a launch. We discuss how having more conversations throughout your customer journey can help you understand what people actually need, validate your offers, build stronger relationships and ultimately make more sales.

If you know you need to get better at selling but you don’t want to use pushy tactics or complicated sales strategies, this conversation will give you a refreshingly simple way to think about sales.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to Online Business Uncovered. This is episode 184, and in today's episode we're going to talk about why so many business owners avoid selling, why sales doesn't have to feel pushy or uncomfortable, and how having more conversations could actually be the key to making more sales. So let's go writing and let's get started. Welcome to Online Business Uncovered, the show to lift the lead on what it really takes to turn your brilliance into digital products, passive income and time freedom. I'm your host, Karen, an online business strategist, course question expert, and you're go-to for building a business that works for you and not the other way around. If you are an ambitious and feeling overwhelmed, don't happen. Or maybe you're just ready for a smart sustainable way to grow, then you're in the right place. Because each week will be bringing you inspiring conversations, practical strategies, and step-by-step guidance to help you create sustainable, repeatable digital products that now is the more displayable. So if you're ready to stop trading your time for money, reclaim your time, and finally build a business to give you the freedom that you just have to subscribe and tune in every Sunday. Let's uncover what it's really possible for you to start now. Hello and welcome to another episode of On My Business Uncovered. I'm your host Karen and I really do appreciate you hitting that play button to listen to today's episode. So today I am continuing with my special Online Business Life Summit speaker series. Um where I'm introducing you to some of the most incredible experts who will be joining me this October at the summit. Today is going to be a really important conversation and I think it's something that affects every single business owner, and that is getting sales. Because the reality is you can have the most amazing often programme, online course, digital product, whatever it is that you're selling. But if you avoid talking about it, or you avoid starting conversations or actually inviting people to buy it, then it's going to be very difficult to make money and to grow your business. So today, my guest, Lisa Yelland, is a sales coach who helps therapist, dealers, coaches, and consultants to simplify sales so that they can make the money that they deserve and create an amazing impact so that they can do more of what they love. So let's jump into today's conversation because it's going to be absolutely brilliant. And today I'm joined by another incredible expert who will be speaking at this year's Online Business Growth Summit. Now, throughout this special series, I'm chatting with our speakers to give you a sneak peek into the knowledge that they're going to be sharing and more importantly to help you discover practical ways to build a business that gives you more income, more freedom, and less reliance on selling your time. So let's dive in to today's episode. And today I've got um sales coach Lisa Yelland. So welcome and thank you for joining me for this episode. Now, before we dive into um the conversation, do you want to start by just introducing yourself to the listeners and just let them know what it is that you do?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Thank you for the invitation, Karen. It's really great to be here to talk about my most favourite subject, which of course is sales. So, yes, hello everybody. I'm Lisa, Lisa Yelland, and I'm a sales coach for therapists, pelos, coaches, and consultants. And what I love to do is to help really simplify sales so that people can make brilliant money having an amazing impact doing the work that they love by focusing on sales. For me, it's the most important skill that you can master in your business. So I'm very excited to um explore that topic with you today.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yes, I I'm really excited about this discussion because sales is one of those um areas that it's so important to every business. However, I think a lot of people struggle with it. Um and it was interesting. I had a conversation earlier with somebody about um the British culture and how we see sales compared to say like Americans and and other, you know, sort of other sort of um countries. And we are very we hold ourselves back, don't we? We're very reserved when it comes to selling, um, which I find really interesting because it is a ness it's a necessity when running, growing, scaling a business. Do you find that?

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah, yes, yeah, I do. So there's many differences. Culture is one of them. I think gender also can play a part as well. And I know from my experience working in corporates, I used to work for an American company. Their selling approach was very different because they were from America compared to what it's like within the UK, and also working with the European market as well. Again, it's very different. So culture does play a really big role in not just how we sell, but actually how we like to buy. And so that's always a really good place to start. It's not necessarily the resistance around selling, it might actually be the resistance that you have to actually being sold to. So a really good place to start is having a think about how do you buy, how do you like to buy, and how do you not like to buy, because that's going to tell you a lot about any kind of resistance or the joyful parts that you may find about your sales process. But yeah, I completely agree. It can vary hugely. And I know in terms of the training that I've done, and believe me, I've been on many, many, many training courses, but it's massively different compared to whether if you're selling to a UK market, US market, or or the European crew. So yes, it makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah. What's um one of the biggest mistakes that you see entrepreneurs and small business owners make when it comes to selling?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

I would say, well, there's a few. Um the biggest one is sales avoidance because actually the hardest sale to make is the one that you don't even try. You you don't even show up for the conversation, you don't even make an invitation, because then a hundred percent of the time you're not going to be able to help somebody to get to a decision and therefore make the sale. So I think the biggest mistake is sales avoidance, and there's so many reasons for that, and it's often very well founded based on a negative experience, something that's felt very awkward. But I think really it's grounded in feeling as though you have to be a different version of yourself, that you have to be a certain personality, you have to do or say certain things in order to get the sale. So I think the biggest mistake is thinking that you have to be a version that you don't like. Why would you do that? You're not going to do that, so therefore don't do it and then you avoid it. Um, but yeah, I think really feeling as though you have to be a certain personality type, you have to say certain things. And I think that's where the mistakes come in because then actually what can happen is that you can either go to one end of the spectrum where you so far away from that that you don't have the conversation, or you can be at the other end where actually, because you're so focused on the sale and what you think that means to you, that you end up potentially being the person that follows up, follows up, follows up, but with no sense of value for the lovely client on the end of the follow-up, or you're not really approaching it with the best energy, you're thinking about what's in it for you rather than actually how can I how can I serve this lovely person? So I think for me that's the biggest mistake is the sales avoidance, but understanding what comes underneath that.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah, it's interesting because I I work with a lot of course creators, and and it it's exciting when you're creating the offer, when you're creating the the product and all of that, and you're in that stage of bringing your idea to life. But the moment it goes into that launch mode and you have to put it out into the world, and then you have to ask people to give you money for it, um, it's it's a very different energy, and it's a very and and so when you're talking about sales avoidance, I've seen that so often where you get busy doing other things because other things is more comfortable than actually becoming uncomfortable and asking for money for the thing that you've created that offers the value. Yeah, um, and and it's always that idea of being that icky salesperson, isn't it nobody wants to be that person that that is is kind of selling in a way that makes other people feel comfortable, but they may not necessarily know how to harness that skill to get the right results. And so, like you say, there's an avoidance around actually doing it.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, yeah, and and there's there's so much in in what you've just said there, and and I I think you've described it really beautifully. That's it, it's really common, and many people feel that way. There's the excitement around the creation, almost the um ignorance is bliss almost, because you actually haven't pressed go on the execution of now. I'm putting it out into the world, it has this value, I've put the value on it, this is what I would love to receive in return. So that the monetary reciprocation, it changes the energy. And so when you can bring in sales to every aspect of what you're doing in your business, then you don't feel like it's this big leap to then take when you're actually talking about the thing. So for me, uh I love to simplify sales, and so for me, sales is all around having conversations. So if you're having conversations at different people at different stages of their buyer's journey, that you are doing your market research, you're genuinely curious about other people, you need to speak to people in order to find out what it is that they really need so that you can ensure that what you're creating is going to solve that problem. Then actually, when it comes to press go, if you've done all of those things before, it doesn't feel like such a big thing when you're then putting it out there. I mean, there's always that sense of butterflies, like, oh my gosh, like this is it. But I think for many people, what you've just described, that process is precisely why it feels so hard. Because maybe the conversations haven't been happening up until that point. So that's what I love to help my clients with is actually how can you create more opportunity for conversation all the way through your lovely sales cycle and your sales process, not just at the end when you're asking someone to buy, and that's the key.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I talk a lot about the validation um process. So before um, after you've kind of got your idea and before you create anything, it's validating that that idea has a need. You know, people have the need for the thing that you're going to be creating. So looking at the market and seeing if there is a gap that you're filling, or are you creating something because you've made the assumption this is what people need, but you haven't actually asked those questions. And I and I and I feel like that piece of the process is what can ultimately build the confidence around creating because then because once you've validated, you know that there is a demand, so therefore you're not creating something nobody's going to want, that you're actually creating something that serves a purpose that's actually going to sell. And I think that's the point, isn't it? It's before you even kind of put it out there, it's making sure that you those conversations are taking place so you know what you're creating is going to be delivering on what people actually need.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And and for me, if you have the the mindset and approach that selling, and I'm sure we've all heard this a million times, selling is serving, selling and solving a problem, that doesn't have to come at the end of a process. That's why I like to think of sales as a wonderful cycle, it's a flow. So it doesn't really have a beginning or an end. It's just something that always is happening. And actually, what I often find with myself and the clients that I work with is that through that market validation, through having conversations with potential clients, you can make sales along the way. It doesn't have to be right at the very end where you've now created the thing and now it's out there into the world. Actually, you know, you can create a wait list. Um, maybe some people are just like, I'm already in, this is amazing. Maybe that validation is going to help improve the offer that you originally had in your mind. But as you said, all of that builds confidence, it gives you amazing feedback, and it ensures really, which is the foundation of any business, that you've got relationships with real people. Because that's what that's what selling is about, isn't it? It's about building relationships so that you can help, so that you can serve, so that you can solve a problem and receive richly for the work that you're doing. So yeah, I I love everything about what you've just said. It's so important.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Yeah, I think in the online space, I think there there can often be a belief that because you're online, you don't have to have those conversations. And and we'll and and obviously you and I both know, we we both network, don't we? So so we understand that at the core of what we do are those relationships and and the people that that either buy what we do or people that we help or all of that. Um, because it's really interesting to me. So so I've been in in business 10 years, and and from right from the get-go, even before I launched my branding studio, I networked. Um, it was only a local group, but I but I saw the value in building relationships at the very beginning. And then um back in 2020 when I moved into the online space, um, it it never occurred to me to stop that, even though I was sort of more in the online space selling sort of my products. Um, but you realise like because I was having a conversation with with um somebody um last week who doesn't network, and and so you you think it's a given then that that people understand the strength of relationships and what that can do and how that can really support your sales, but I but I kind of have come to learn myself that it's not a given because obviously there's a there's there is a thought in the online space that it is just about maybe jumping on Instagram or LinkedIn or whatever and then just doing those sales posts, and that's how you're gonna make your money. Um, but but actually it is through those conversations, isn't it, that's so important that leads to where you want people to go.

unknown 16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Even being an online business in the online space.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah, I I think that's a really great point. I I think with the online space, we assume that perhaps there doesn't need to be as much of a human element, or maybe take the human element out of it completely. And if anything, I'd say it's the opposite because when you're in the online space, you have this barrier, you have this invisible barrier, don't you have a screen? And so it's even more important that you infuse more of you into your business and certainly your sales process. And for me, there's no better way of doing that than actually having conversations. And and you'll know this, Karen, any strategy can work, any strategy at all. So absolutely, you can build a business and get clients, sell your products and services just from social media. You can do that. But what those social media posts are doing are generating conversations. So, in order to make sales from socials, you have to have that infused into your content. How are you generating conversations? Because that's ultimately where the sale is happening, not just from a post. And often people think that, don't I? If I post more, then I'll I'll make some sales. And I I haven't found that unless you've got a massive audience, you're very well established, your personal brand is on it, you you know what you're doing, you're you've you know the problem, you've got the perfect solution, it's proven it's tried and tested for those types of businesses that's super established, absolutely, but I think for most of us that's that's not the case. So, yeah, conversations are where it's at, and um, there's many ways of doing that, but yeah, networking's always been really brilliant for me. And I I've done that from the get-go, mainly because I found it so lonely to start. And I I was craving, it was like I left corporate, so I was craving that that people, the team. Uh, and so really networking for me to start with was you know, um finding my tribe and my business studies, um, as well as hopefully making some sales and managing to enrol some clients from that, of course. But yeah, it networking really gives so much um to you as a business owner, for sure. And I've got some wonderful networking groups I'm a part of, and it makes the biggest difference to me sanity-wise, and also yeah, from a business perspective as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah, I I was like that. I was I had because I remember 2016, I had no idea. I mean, it's it's funny, isn't it? You know, when you look back, and I'd come from a creative sort of environment. So because I was working at a design agency, all I knew was what I did, and but I I I so I knew nothing about business, and um, I just remember thinking, well, I've got to learn, and where better to learn than by putting myself around other people that are doing it. So, so from the get-go for me, it was like the obvious thing, but then from the get-go, I got I made sales. I was I started out as a web designer, and through conversations, I picked up clients because my approach was slightly different, they liked that. That then eventually sort of uh, you know, led to me, you know, opening my my branding studio, Pink Lemon. So um, but but yeah, when you think about it, the strategy is conversations. It's not yeah, people it's so easy to overcomplicate, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

I know all the things, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And um you gave some examples, didn't you, of the things that feel good to do. It feels very productive, you know. This is this is business activity, yes. Um, but for me, where and and I'm doing this even in my own business now, and this is somebody that loves conversations, I do focus on sales, as you would expect, but I'm looking at what can I strip away, what are the things that are actually moving the needle and focus on that, particularly as a woman, particularly as a mum as well. I've got two girls, you know, it's busy, life is really full, and it's just amazing how time can just be sucked away into all sorts of things before you even know it. So for me, I'm I'm so much more intentional now about where I'm spending my time and how can I simplify it. And um, for anyone that might be struggling to make sales, you just have to bring it back to the number of conversations you're having. And if you don't feel you're having enough, how can you create more opportunity for that without being attached to the outcome of it? So that's the other, that's the other mistake I'd love to mention. Yeah, I think it's a I think it's a state of being and it's a completely understandable one, and I've experienced it myself. Um, is not being attached to the outcome of the conversation and being able to just sit with that, that you can show up fully in service of the other person, getting really curious around what their problems are, what their goals are, and do you have the right solution that's going to help them? And staying curious for as long, longer than you think you need to, in fact, so that you don't miss anything. Because I think a really easy mistake to make in the selling part, particularly if it stresses you out a bit, you feel a bit anxious, you're feeling the pressure, yeah, you make a lot of assumptions. And part of that might be because you're too attached to the outcome. Maybe you need the sale, maybe you make it mean something about you, how good you are, how not good you are, how not good enough you are. Um, and that really throws your energy off. And that's for me, it is really, it's really important. It's probably the most important thing, isn't it? Who you're being when you're taking the action. So that that's something as well. And and I've experienced that, I'm sure you have with networking where you're pitch slapped, you know, just met somebody, and then all of a sudden, you know, slaps that plap around the face, you know. Why wouldn't you want it? Kind of thing. I don't know. Maybe I want it or maybe I don't. I don't know. I just feel like I've been completely stuck in the face. So and nobody wants to be that person either. But I would suggest what's going on for them is a sense of being attached to the outcome of the conversation. It needs to be an opportunity to pitch.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Um and to feel.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

And um for many of us, we just make it mean something about us. So when you can detach from that and you can get really curious, stay present, and be in full service and remember it's about the other person, not about you. That's when naturally you can things happen.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I love that because um what I've tried to do, so probably over the past 18 months, where I have um being a bit like yourself, I've been really intentional in my business in terms of the outcomes that I'm I'm wanting to create. Um part of the challenge is detaching and almost approaching it in a way like the scientist. If I do this, what happens? You know, it can I can I get the outcome I want if I do A, B, or C? And if I can, what is more effective? So you so you're looking in at things from a place of objectivity rather than emotion. And um I think that for me has made a tremendous amount of difference, and especially as I've been talking about the summit, because with the summit, it's been such a big project, but I have been selling. And um, what's been really interesting to me, and this is why I think networking is so important, so instantly everybody is so supportive because I think people get it, don't they? They they understand these things that we we pull together, we try, and and often you're in communities where you get that support. But I think the thing that has really um not surprised me, but but but kind of really um pleased me, so to speak, is how easy it has been to sell the idea. But when I think about why that's the case, it's because over the past, what I've been doing this now six years in the online space, there's that consistency of showing up and and having those conversations and understanding my audience. So my messaging now is very reflective of where my ideal audience is. So when people are signing up and when people I'm having those conversations, often it's they're reflecting back to me my own messaging, and that's where that that happens an awful lot. And I think but that's taken a lot of work to really understand what they're really struggling with and how I can really help them. But but when you kind of nail it, and I do think it's a work in progress, um, the sales become easier because you're able to then create something that is on point of what they need. And that's what I've tried to do with Summit. So when it's come to selling it, because I have an upsell, so the event itself is free, but then I have an upsell ticket for lifetime access to all the recordings, it was so interesting to me that even before I launched the website, probably the majority of my signups coming in, people were paying for the upsell. And and and then and and yeah, and I was I was really surprised about that. But I think that like you say, it's because of all of those conversations and all that consistency and all that that that work that's been done that's built that trust. And when the right thing, the right thing is put out there, then the audience will will will wanna you know be a part of it. So I I've my own learning experience, I think that's the thing I think that's made the difference is that consistency of showing up and the and the messaging and tying the two together.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yeah, I I I agree. And and therein lies the challenge, doesn't it? Because showing up consistently when you don't have the certainty of the work that you're doing is going to pay off and that you're gonna be able to make sales and it's all gonna be worth it. You don't you just don't have that certainty. And so I think uh one of the skills that you're describing is that ability to have that resilience almost, as you said, you're approaching it from an experimentation perspective, like, oh, if I do this, what's gonna be the result? And then what lever do I need to pull perhaps to improve? But also being able to show up because that's the commitment that you're making to yourself and your business and your dreamiest clients, you're just gonna keep showing up, and that is the challenge, because of course that's not easy to do, it's not easy to do, and we are emotional beings, aren't we? And we have good days, bad days, we have we have brilliant points in the day, not so brilliant points, and I think the way that you were describing your um scientific approach is so useful because then when you've got the data, you can make decisions based on that.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Uh, but you have to keep showing up, and that is that is the challenge because that is the challenge, it is the challenge, but but I think because where I've become because that because I'm quite I'm creative, so so I like to sort of spend time in in the creative stuff, so data is always been like my my husband does data, I don't do data, I like to create. So, but being the scientist and looking for the evidence has been so powerful because then you can make conscious decisions as to what where you spend your time and what you then focus on. And I think probably over the past 18 months, for me, that's been the biggest shift, and because of that, it's probably the biggest the biggest movements have happened. Um, you know, and and it's one of these things that when you say it, it's like ah, you know, yeah, I get it, but data scares me because what if the data doesn't tell me what I want to I want to hear?

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah, yeah, completely. And you know, lots of people have an aversion and a resistance to setting sales goals and targets for that reason, because it's like, well, you know, what if I don't hit it, then I'm gonna feel rubbish, like I've failed, um, or I've set them in the past and I've never hit them, so what's the point? And I I get all of that, but I guess my corporate conditioning has really served me well because we always had targets, and that was one thing I was brilliant at. I would break everything down to the minute detail pence. I knew exactly how I was gonna hit my targets. But but really, if you think about it, like with a GPS, you're going somewhere, if you don't know where you're starting from and you don't know where you're going, well, how on earth are you setting yourself up for success to be able to get there? Yeah. So it's again, it's about detaching from that goal and target. What does that mean? Yes, we can create some excitement and joyfulness around it, of course, but it the story that we can attach to that can either serve us or sabotage us. So we need to have goals, we need to have targets because how else are you ever going to get you don't even know where you're going. Um so it's kind of you know, finding a neutral place where you're not attaching the value of you to your revenue goal and your sales target, but knowing it's an important part of setting yourself up for success. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yeah, I get I I agree with that. I agree with that. I think I think knowing because I have a lot of conversations with people about what it is that they're looking to create. And it and nine times out of ten, um people don't necessarily have that end destination in mind. So they're doing what they're doing because they want to create freedom in their life, could be free, you know, financial freedom or time freedom or creative freedom or the freedom to build something that's going to become a legacy for them down the road. But often that's as far as it goes. It's not like I want to get to wherever in 12 months. Often that doesn't seem to happen because it becomes quite challenging to know what to focus on and what that destination looks like. It's almost like I think with sometimes with running a business, it's a bit like a, you know, the picture is very hazy. And then every time you take a step forward, a little bit comes more into focus. So when when it's like that, it's so difficult to really kind of cement a goal that you're like, yeah, I absolutely want that. And whatever. So so I I often think that business owners can often be sort of driving in the dark a little bit in terms of where their destination is and and what they're and what they need to earn in order to be able to achieve the the ultimate thing that they're looking to achieve for themselves. Um yeah, yeah, uh yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

So I think there's two elements to that. The first one is what are your numbers, um, and really getting detailed around that. What is it that you need to be earning and what revenue would be your freedom number and what would allow you to do the extra things, like getting really clear on that. But also, I think that maybe the more important piece is that we can often be scared to allow ourselves to want what we really want. It's almost like we don't want to say, we don't want to own it again, for the maybe for the same reason, like what if I don't get it? What if I can't do it? What if, what if? Um, but making that claim and allowing ourselves to actually want success, whatever that means for you, it's different for everybody. Often it's helpful to have tangible markers. So revenue is an easy one because that's tangible, you can measure that, but there's other ways you can measure success, it doesn't have to be just about the income that you're generating, but ultimately revenue has to play a part, otherwise, it's just an expensive hobby, isn't it? So it that's gonna be if it is it is it a hobby or is it a business that you're building? And it doesn't need to be that six-figure thing or seven-figure thing, it's gonna be different for everybody. But I think often what's the blocker is not so much can I work out the numbers, it's am I gonna own what I really desire? Um and and that takes some courage actually. Um, and for me, business is a massive mirror, and I think this is why sales is so triggering for so many people because running a business is a trigger, but when you add sales into the mix, and if you haven't had sales experience, sales training, it it's gonna show you everything about yourself, which can be challenging. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yeah, absolutely. I think it is, isn't it? Your business is the mirror of where you're at, and I think that's why personal development is so important. That it's something that when you decide to start a business, it's a thing that people don't tell you, is that the personal development is so important because that's going to be what moves your business forward. We think it's the activities, we think that if I'm just really good at what I do, then I'm gonna make money and I'm gonna earn loads of money, which means I won't ever have to get a job again and I'll have this successful business and everything will be great. But the the the truth and the reality is that there's nothing like running a business to expose who you are and and your and the and the stories that you carry around and and the blocks that you have.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Yeah, yeah, completely. So you're right. We think, don't we, that if we've got uh we've taken time to understand our audience, we've got a brilliant solution to the problem, it should just sell itself. Like if I put it out there, it should sell. That isn't the reality. Um, but we think that, and logically that makes sense. But what's missing is that relationship piece, the human element, actually leadership. So the biggest lesson I've learned in business actually is leadership, and that is one of the most important things that you can have to be able to sell. Because I I said earlier, you just need to have more conversations, like it all comes back to conversations. Have more conversations, you will make more sales. Well, some of your lovely listeners might be thinking, yeah, but how do I do that? And that's the bit I don't want to do, that's the bit that resistance coming. I don't know what to say. I what if they say this, then what do I say? And all of this stuff comes up, and they're right, and and it's true, it's true for many people, and it's because your your emotions attach to it, there's things that are coming up for you, and this is why, as you said, personal development is really important. This is why I trained as a hypnotherapist actually to help, well, to learn something else, but also to help my own sales process for me to understand how my brain works, but also how my lovely client's brain works. And I'll share with you that the year that I trained as a hypnotherapist back in 2010 was the most successful year that I had in my sales career over a 32 year career. That's no coincidence, and it was because I was doing all of this personal development, I was focusing on the mind, um, what gets in our way and how we can liberate ourselves from the things that keep us stuck and the things that stop us from taking action because we know that our mind is not there to make us happy, um, it's there to keep us alive. And if we've got stories around, you know, being visible is vulnerable. If I ask somebody a question and it triggers them in some way or it feels uncomfortable, I don't want, I don't want to feel uncomfortable, I don't want to make somebody else feel uncomfortable, then you feel like you're risking the relationship and we don't want to do that. Um, it's all primitive wiring. So the key is yes, personal developments is why I work with my clients on energetics and mindset when it comes to sales, because the truth is the strategy bit is a small piece, and the skills, yes, what to say, when to say it, there's frameworks, there's things that can help, but ultimately isn't necessarily what you say, it's who you're being when you're saying it, yeah, and how you make somebody feel. So yeah, uh personal development is is a really big piece. And no, nobody told me that um at the beginning of my business journey. Um, I've been lucky to be supported by some brilliant business mentors, and they've focused heavily on that. Um to the work I do with my clients. It's it's the biggest piece for sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Yeah, it's so important. I um it is since I've been working in the space that I'm now in, I've realized actually that the mindset is probably the biggest um piece um that that you can work on because it can it can actually stop you from from moving forwards. And I think you can have the best idea, the best course, the best product, the best offer. But if you're sabotaging your own success because you're you're carrying stories that are untrue but that you believe are true, then then all of that doesn't matter. And so I think it's doing the what doing the inner work will get the external um you know results. And um I I went to um so for for a few years I've gone to an event in um in the US um out in Phoenix. I went in December and it was a three-day business breakthrough event, and um it was amazing. So what they do through this event is they do a lot of deep um meditation and hypnosis, um, and there is strategy and there's a lot of sort of business activity that goes on, but but actually it's the inner work that that that happens is is where the shifts um obviously you know happen. And I've been I went in December and then I went two years ago, and I came back two years ago and I had an amazing time, it's such a brilliant experience, and I came back and I did all this stuff and I launched my membership and and I I did brilliantly. I think I sort of converted it was something like 89% of my wait list or something, and um but but but what I was what blew me away was that the blogs that I knew that I I was dealing with beforehand had gone, they'd gone. Um the work that we'd done without realising it really shifted. And then I went in December and I was thinking about the summit, and um I obviously resistance to the summit because it's such a big job, and I knew it would require a you know, a part of me that maybe I've not really done before. Like I I knew I'd have to step into the leader and be all of this and be visible and and and whatever, and I was really resisting it. Anyway, I went and I'm and I was I said I need signs. Like first off, I need signs. Am I supposed to do this? And on the first day, I was watching this panel, a six-figure panel, and the first speaker um sort of stood up, and it was almost like she was in my head, and I don't know anybody else that has run a summit, but it was like she took what was in my head and reflected it back to me. The only difference being hers was in a very different space. So she was talking about Google and Google Tools and stuff. So that was my first um sign, and then and then all the synchronicities throughout the the event were were just incredible. But again, we did the inner work, we did the deep meditation, we did the the all the stuff, you know, looking at why we're doing it and and what we're looking to achieve, and you know, what's getting in our way and what's holding us back, and all of that stuff. Came back in January, absolutely flew with a lot. I knew I had the so much clarity, and it was almost like the fears that I was carrying about being visible, being the leader, bringing people together, all of this stuff had just gone. And and now I'm I mean, I won't go this year because it's online, but next year, and it's like going to you know, every other year I'll probably go because the transformation is it's it's and it compounds as well. Because by moving and shifting blocks, you then do something that then gives you evidence that what you're doing is working, and then you want more of the same thing. So then there's a compound effect as you're as you're moving forward. So so I think my own personal experience working on the inner, um, the inner being has made a huge difference to the external results. And and I think sometimes when it comes to talking about sales, I think people get so hung up on the numbers, forgetting the number one sales is a skill that that needs to be learned, but also the inner work reflects the external results, and if you're carrying those blocks, ultimately you you know, again, you can have the best product, but if you if you're carrying blogs, you're not necessarily going to get those sales. So so I love it when I when when we talk about this inner stuff, because to me, like it's the most powerful piece of the entire puzzle.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yeah, yeah, it it is. That's really an amazing story. Oh my gosh. Um, that's just phenomenal shifts, isn't it? And the other thing I'll just reflect back to you as you were saying all of that is that even though you had that massive transformation and you've experienced it before and you're doing the inner work, you you spoke earlier about being consistent anyway, in terms of showing up. So I think that anyone that's starting out or anyone that's about to launch something new, because they say, don't they, um, new level, new devil. Well, actually, it's the same devil, same thing comes up, it doesn't matter whether it's your first offer, whether you're hitting the next milestone, it's like the same things come up, it's just you're a different version of yourself. Um we think, don't we, that confidence we need to feel confident before we do the thing. So it's like I need to master sales before I try and sell anything, before I make an invitation, before I put my offer out that needs to be absolutely perfect. And actually, the truth is that confidence is going to come from you taking action. And so the key really is what action can you take that feels relatively okay so that you can start to build that evidence of I can do this. And that's why I think goals are quite good actually, by setting, yes, we love a stretch goal, yes, we love a dolulu goal. But if you can be quite realistic about you know what, I my goal is this week, I am going to start one conversation. Maybe I'm just going to start one conversation this week. Um, and then by sticking to that, and then you can start to build on it, but then you've got the validation that you can do it, you can keep your word to yourself. In other words, you can trust yourself because this is a big thing. And do I trust myself to actually follow through? I trust myself to do the thing because I don't want to do it, and all of the things are coming up. So all of that personal development stuff can can be going on, but you don't have to have that nail, do you, before you take the action. It's it's a combination of the two. It's like how can you do to move things forward a little bit to build your confidence? Because we know it comes from doing the thing. You don't feel that before you have to do it and then you feel it after, you know?

SPEAKER_00 43:59

Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that's one of the things that, as you rightly say, I think people um don't don't realize when they when they start out. Um it's trying it's like a perfectionism, isn't it? It's trying to get everything perfect before things are launched. And actually the way you get it perfect is by launching. The way you build an audience is by launching. You don't build an audience before, you build it as you launch, and then you rinse, repeat, and do and do it again and again. Um, I have to share, I think, one of one of my biggest lessons, and I'm going to do more content around this, and I'll probably do an episode on this. The biggest lesson that I have probably realized through doing this summit is, and I think we are all guilty of this in business, or or many people are, shall I say, is is diluting our efforts by constantly focusing on so many different things. And what I'm and I've been guilty of this, you know, being stuck in creators, yeah, definitely, being stuck in creators mode, constantly creating. You launch it, you may not necessarily get the results straight away. So then you think, oh, I know, maybe that's not quite right. I'll go back and I'll I'll do another version of it, or I'll do something new, and then you get kind of stuck in that cycle. What I what I've what's one of my biggest lessons is one audience, one message, one offer, one outcome. And by focusing on that one thing, not only does it reduce the overwhelm, but it gets you good at selling that one thing. Because I think when we focus on so many things, we dilute our efforts in the areas that we need to focus on because we're trying to do all the other things. And I'm not, and I know for me that's something I've been guilty of in the past. Should I sell my membership? Shall I sell my program? Shall I do my coaching? All of this stuff, but actually pick one thing and focus in on one thing and get good at selling that one thing, yeah. And then and and then and then and then you've got the evidence that you can then build on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Often we're not selling the thing or we think it's a failure, or we haven't sold enough. It's just because we actually haven't sold it enough, we haven't talked about it enough, we haven't invited people enough. And as you said, if it sticking at something for a really good chunk of time in order to be able to evaluate it properly, to be able to collect the data, as you were saying, and to really know whether this is a go or not is the key. And um, you know, particularly in the long online space, there's so many distractions, the marketplace is so busy, it's really easy, isn't it, to get pulled into, well, maybe I should try this strategy, maybe I should try this, this worked for them. Let's go. And certainly I've I've done that. And it I I love the simplicity, simplification of what you're saying, and also it's about picking the strategy that you feel is going to be right for you at the stage of business that you're at. I can't tell you the amount of times that something has sounded amazing. Well, yeah, it probably would have worked if I was a seven-figure business or an eight-figure business. Yeah, that would have been perfect, but I wasn't. I was just starting out like literally from zero. But we we don't know this, you know, we we don't realize this at the beginning. So, you know, picking something that you feel is going to be aligned for you for the stage of business that you're at is really important. Um, yeah. So that's absolutely add on to that. I think it's a really good, really good lesson. So stick it long enough to know whether it really works or not is yeah, absol absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

Yeah, that's such great advice. It is stage of business because I think that's it. There's so much so much noise online, you know, advising, you know, everyone's got an opinion about what needs to happen at what point, and but but and you but but the thing is you can't compare your business and where you're at to somebody else's because because the journey's so different, so you might be in the world of business, yeah, but you've all got different goals. Yeah, we do, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like trying to compare.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Yeah, it's so easy to get drawn into that, and this is where like the the personal development, all the mindset stuff, like having some support, whether that's you're working with a business coach or or a mentor in some way, or you've got your business tribe, you've got your buddies, you've got people to vent at, you know, keep you on the straight and narrow. It's just like actually, and maybe it's a bit of going back to what I was saying earlier, like really claiming what it is you want, what is it you want, and what's going to be the simplest way of getting there? And you don't need to have all the steps, you just need to take the next one. And as you said, you know, the the path unfolds, but it's it's keeping you course correcting constantly because it's so easy to get pulled off into all sorts of different directions, so yeah, and that does require uh some discipline for sure, and that's something else that I'm still learning to be able to do.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Yeah, I think I think I think I think that's an ongoing thing, isn't it? I like to see um you know running a business as an evolution. Yes, I I don't I don't think anybody has it figured out. I've kind of 10 years in business and I have realized that well, I've just come to the conclusion that I don't think anybody has it figured out. I think we're all trying to pave the way for ourselves in the best and easiest way possible. And I think sometimes sometimes you have to try things and you have to give things a go to find out whether or not it works. I don't think you've we fail at any point, but I do think what we have to get comfortable with is learning what we're doing in plain sight of others, and I and I equate that a lot with sales as well. So being okay with somebody saying no or I'm not ready for it now, and not taking that personally, um because and I think and I think when you get comfortable with that and you start to remove that emotion around that, then then you know it becomes a whole lot easier, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Yeah, absolutely. And there's there's lots of different approaches to try and build that resilience around getting a know, and actually different types of people, different, you know, neurospicy, um, all sorts of there could be all sorts of things going on that could actually elicit a trauma response to a rejection. Some people are super sensitive to that, and so there's it, there's some work to be done there in terms of getting the right support in to be able to show up in your business and be okay with the no. But for for other people, it is about well, actually, I am gonna go for the no. Like that could be a bit of a game and an experiment. I am gonna keep having conversations and just get as many no's as possible, so that I'm almost a bit desensitized. So it's almost like immersion therapy, isn't it? Um but I I think what one way that feels better for me is to really focus on actually how brilliant you are and how you have helped people and to really build a really strong, I call it a smile file. Um, any any positive feedback, anything that you've achieved in your life, all of your amazing attributes, like even down to, I don't know, the colour of your eyes or whatever, like you can put it all down in there and make a conscious effort to keep looking at that and reminding yourself that you are brilliant and you are human and you're doing your best with what you've got and it is work in progress, but to remind yourself of that so that it just helps to take the edge off a little bit. Now, of course you're going to be disappointed when somebody says no if you feel like they're a dreamiest client. Yeah. But just know that we know, don't we? No, isn't always an end point. It could be no, not right now. It could be this offer isn't right for them, but actually the next thing could be. It could be that there's other things going on that you don't know about.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

We always personalize and we think, well, it has to be us, but in fact, it rarely is. It's it's always always, I say, mostly about the other person. So can you get curious around what that might be? So it's also building up some reasons as to why it isn't you. So I think smile file is really quite nice. How brilliant are you? How amazing are you? And remind yourself of that as often as possible before you do the thing in your selling process that you feel a bit of resistance towards. And um I mean, my goal with all of my clients is can I help them make sales the most enjoyable part of their business? Aside from client delivery, obviously. We love our clients, um, of course, but second to that, can sales be the thing that you really, really love? Because when you love something, well, then you give it your energy, it feels different, you look forward to it, you protect it. Um and if you're doing that on a daily basis, my gosh, of course you're gonna succeed. How could how could you not?

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Yeah. No, that's uh that that's great advice. I love the smile file, I love that. Um somebody said to me a couple of years ago that what they do is every time something um happens in their business, which you know, so they'll get a client review or they get a new client or or something, um, something great happens, they write on a piece of paper and they put it in a jar, and then at the end of the year they they've got a jar full of these, you know, little papers that they can get out and actually have a look. But also if something happens that because you know, obviously running a business is a roller coaster. You know, sometimes you have brilliant days, other times you just want to chuck it all in and go back to work. I mean, I'm sure we've all felt like that. Um, but you can actually go to the jar and help you get get one of them out in line and start reading them and to to lift you up. So I love that. It's it's it's a collection of evidence, isn't it? Essentially, you know, it's such a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

I I tell you, I also bring in uh an elevated celebration. So whenever a client becomes a client of mine, so if somebody enrolls with me or one of my clients makes a sale, I will always send them a voice note with me banging my celebratory drum. So I have a here it is. I have a, I'm not just saying it, I have a uh a bongo. Love that. I I bang it and it's just it's just a bit fun, but it brings in that celebration. It's like actually, somebody has said yes, yes to change in their life, because that's ultimately what we're doing, whether that's through beautiful products and that's going to elevate somebody's experience in some way, or it's solving a problem, or it's helping them grow their business, or whatever it might be. It's a celebration, so I like to mark that, and it always makes everybody smile. So that's something else.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

Oh, I love that. That's such a good idea. Oh, so so obviously you're going to be speaking at Summit, which I'm really excited about. Um, but for everybody joining us um at the online business growth summit, what are you going to be sharing during your session and why shouldn't they miss it?

SPEAKER_01 55:24

Well, I mean, as if you need any more reasons than the whole conversation that we've had, ultimately I'm going to be helping you sell your best digital product. And actually, the secret is that it doesn't matter whether it's digital, it's a physical thing, it doesn't matter whether it's a service or a product, the principles are the same. So I'm going to help simplify everything for you and give you some key implementable steps that you can take that will result in more conversations. And I know that when you can leave conversations, and I can give you some pointers on that as well, you are going to make more sales. So that's that's the premise of the talk. You're not going to want to miss it because sales is the most important thing in running any business. And even just by listening to me, I know that my sales enthusiasm will filter across the waves. And that's going to make a difference even just by being there. But if you actually engage and do the things, well, just imagine what you could create. So that's what I'm going to be talking about. Amazing. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And I can't wait. It's going to be great.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

It's going to be great. It's going to be great. Well, the the honestly, the sessions, I'm so excited that we've got brilliant sessions, but I'm super excited about the sales because I do know myself working with my members and um my students, when it comes to selling, it's it can be a challenge. And so I know that what you're going to be sharing is going to make such a difference. So definitely don't miss your session. So your session's happening day two, so on the 7th of October, isn't it? So the um the summit schedule is now online, it's on the website. I'll share the link um in a moment, but definitely go and check it out. And if you haven't registered, do register for um Lisa's session. Um so before we finish, I've just got some quick questions um that I'm gonna fire at you just for fun. So just and because I'm nosy as well. Okay, go for it. What are you gonna ask me? Who knows? Right. Let's start with the most important one. Are you a coffee or a tea drinker? Coffee. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, what's uh one business book every entrepreneur should read?

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Um oh, how to make friends and influence people by Dale and Carnegie. Love that. Oh, okay. People basically it's brilliant, it's all about people related to yeah, it's great. I've read it several times, it's my it's always on my bed.

SPEAKER_00 58:07

Yeah, so somebody else said there's a book, and I and I'm gonna look this one out, whereas it's like the power and no when people say no to you. And that and I'm quite intrigued by that one as well. Yeah, getting comfortable with with the word no. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like a really good book. Yeah, good one. Good one. Uh what's one taller ad that you just couldn't run your business without?

SPEAKER_01 58:31

I well, there's there's two actually. One is Zoom. I love Zoom, I love it. Um, the second one is any kind of voice note app. So I'm a fan of Voxer, but I am also okay on WhatsApp. But I've I need to express myself via my voice. I think I process as I speak. So yeah, I couldn't do without a voice note app. I I think they're brilliant. So yeah, those two.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Yeah, really useful. What's the one best piece of business advice you've ever been given?

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Actually, it's something that you already said, which is keep things simple and focus on one thing long enough for you to know whether it works or not. And actually, the chances are if you stick it something for long enough, it is gonna work. So a good 90-day period is a really good uh amount of time to really test, refine, and obviously see results. So, yeah, just stick it, sell it enough to know, you know.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Yeah, stick with it, yeah, brilliant. Yeah, it's it's one of those things that it's obvious, but it's not obvious. It's obvious when you do it and you and it works, and then you think, yeah, of course, of course, but it's not obvious when you're in the weeds of trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Well, no, because there's distractions and you've got the mindset. Yeah, it applies to you all the time. So, yeah, it seems obvious, but it isn't.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

Yeah, no, absolutely. In one sentence, what does building an online business mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

What does it mean to me? It means, and this word is banded about a lot, and this won't be one sentence because I struggle with that in case you haven't already noticed. Um, I would say for me, it it really is about freedom. So, freedom for me means to work the hours that I want to work, to to choose the types of clients that I want to work with, and really to be in control of how I'm spending the most valuable resource that we have, which is our time. So having an impact so that I get filled up, um, to be present with my girls. Uh, they're 14 and 11 now, and I I can't believe where that time has gone. Um, and to make really good money being richly rewarded for the brilliant work that I can do and and owning that and being okay with that. So that's what that's what having an online business means um for me. So it's all around freedom.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I've got a 12 and 14-year-old two girls, so absolutely they're they're at that age where they don't need you, but they do need you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I get it. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been an absolute pleasure. Um, if you've enjoyed this conversation, then you're going to love the online business growth summit because this is just a small taste of what there is to come. Now, alongside today's guest, you'll hear from over 18 incredible experts covering everything from digital products, marketing, sales, AI, visibility, audience growth, and so much more. And it's all designed to help you build income beyond selling your time. Lisa, thank you so much. Um, and for my listeners, please, um, if you haven't registered already, do go and use the link www.sellyourbrilliansonline.com and you can register for free there. Thank you so much. It's honestly it's been a delight. Thank you. Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. I really hope it's given you something to think about and perhaps inspired you to look at your business a little bit differently. Now, if you've enjoyed this episode, then I'd be grateful if you could show with a friend or a fellow entrepreneur. It really helps more people to discover the podcast, and you never know who might need to hear this message today. And if you're ready to start building a business that gives you more freedom, then I would love to invite you to join me at the online business growth summit. Now, this summit is taking place on the 6th to the 8th of October online. It's completely free to attend and it's going to bring together over 18 expert speakers who will be sharing practical strategies to help you create a business that you love, a business that truly supports your lifestyle. You can register your free place today by visiting www.wpalinzaonline.com. I will be back next week with another episode, but until then, have a wonderful week. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Online Business Uncovered. If today's conversation has sparked an idea or gave you a dose of clarity, then please make sure to check out the show notes for all the links and resources mentioned. New episodes land every Thursday, so hit follow or subscribe to stay in the loop. And if you're loving the show, a quick rating or review goes a long way in helping more brilliant entrepreneurs like you find this show. Until next time, keep showing up, keep sharing your brilliance, and remember, freedom in business is possible, and it starts with taking the next right step.